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Post by electryx on Aug 23, 2006 15:58:46 GMT
Hey there, After watching yet another debacle on the server over a character being pickpocketed - this time in a level 20 group by a level 40+ player, I again wonder why it's even permitted at all outside guild activity. It's the one ambiguous part of the rules here I don't understand. If you join/form a guild you are tacitly "opting in" to the limited pvp rules here on the server. Everyone else should be exempt imo. It seems like the only people who do it outside guilds are complete jerks who I wouldn't really want around anyway. Also, it seems like when it occurs, the victim usually winds up breaking the rules in retaliation, either through ignorance, confusion or just pure frustration. Being able to pickpocket other players (outside of guild activity) or be pickpocketed doesn't seem to add any value to the game here except to the "jerks" who do it. That would seem to represent less than 1% of the server population and so seems unnecessary to me. Disallowing it would also clear up the rules significantly, removing a "gray area". (I'm a black and white kinda guy -e
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 23, 2006 18:40:42 GMT
You make a good point about outcomes, but pp has its uses. In the altercation you're referring to, a player used it to provoke legitimate PvP when another member refused to leave the area after being booted from party for being to low level. I prefer that to them having to get a dm for every server rules ionfraction, to be honest. Because every player has equal access to the rules, and is able to ask about them, it's fair to hold them accountable to following them - ie, ignorance is no excuse.
Now, I'll be the first to admit that the server PvP rules are overly complicated. I dashed them off in an evening, and while I think I covered most outcomes pretty well (though there are definitely gaps, like the loot theft from party which isnt exactly pp), they are a royal pain to read. I think what we need is a simplification, a restatement of the rules in more legible and lucid format, by someone who understands them. If a player wants to undertake this task, I'd we willing to offer them a pet or a UR, but they would have to be a polished product, not a one night rush job, with several reviews/revisions likely. The goal would be to reduce them to as short and simple a format possible, yet comprehensive and clear. Post here if you are interested. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 23, 2006 18:41:23 GMT
Oh, and pickpocketing is definitely not going away - it has it's uses. Funky
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Post by thedomicron on Aug 23, 2006 18:58:30 GMT
i'll take a look at the pp rules, it'll give me something towards which i can apply my english degree
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Post by whodat1 on Aug 23, 2006 19:40:07 GMT
Adjust phraseology to be later critiqued by a lawyer... I think I will pass on that... but best of luck dom!
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Post by Grudge on Aug 23, 2006 21:05:46 GMT
just to clarify, rarely ever do i see people PP other PCs. and even rarer yet, do i see people randomly PP others to be a jerk. if i am correct about the altercation you are referring to *shifts uncomfortably* it was not an immo picking on a lvl 20. maybe the situation could have been handled better, but i dont see it as a reason for removing the PP skill. and im not a jerk ~grudge
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Post by Grudge on Aug 23, 2006 21:07:59 GMT
ps: if you dont believe me, have a gander at the screenies i posted yesterday
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Post by electryx on Aug 24, 2006 7:00:28 GMT
Not you I was referring to - I'm still not sure about how players being able to pp other players benefits anyone - not wanting to remove anything, merely suggesting that it be disallowed for ppl who have not opted in to limited pvp via the guild system. Could someone give me some examples of how players pping players makes it more enjoyable or better? I'm still new and haven't discovered the benefit (other than the obvious gain of loot at some player's expense)
-e
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Post by Dannecrot on Aug 24, 2006 10:11:04 GMT
As Funky explained, you can use it to provoke PVP. Someone does something annoying but not enough to let you kill them, so you PP making them angry enough to attack allowing you to kill them. Also if someone looses their cool and starts PKing, why should you just kill him when you can make some profit?
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Post by lala on Aug 24, 2006 11:31:28 GMT
It would be nice if there was a reputation system linked to pp player characters as there should be some sort of penalty for those that benefit.
A reputation system would mean that the character stealing becomes dubious and recognised for this fact by NPCs. As an example for every pp acctioned against a player their reputation increases by 1, each increase causes a 20% penalty on buying and selling goods to merchants (unless its a rogue merchant). The reputation points last until fugue or you buy your good graces back at the church at a cost of 1 mill for every level you have (including legendary), this would remove 1 reputation point.
An alternative would be that factions behave neutral and then hostile as the reputation of notoriety increases.
Lala
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Aug 24, 2006 22:13:17 GMT
Adjust phraseology to be later critiqued by a lawyer... I think I will pass on that... but best of luck dom! I won't critique...too much... Ok, I totally would, but thats an occupational peculiarity.
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 25, 2006 2:28:07 GMT
Even one PP occurence is frequent enough to interfere with my enjoyment of the server. There should be at least an opposed skill roll of some sort, like versus Discipline or Concentration, or a reflext save or something.... Losing a rare item is devastating, especially if it's a subrace or an item your entire wardrobe depends on. And killing the PPer should at least allow you to get the item back, and them some.... Need SOME kinda penalty (more than possible death) to make PP balanced for both criminal and victim.
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Post by mishimayukio on Aug 25, 2006 3:14:16 GMT
Heres an idea. When a player is killed by another player, all stolen items carried by that player are dropped on the ground near the corpse. [edited] Please no discussion of exploits on the forums. Don'tr thinbk it was intentional, but please be careful. Funky Aye, sorry about that. -Yue
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Post by whodat1 on Aug 25, 2006 5:11:10 GMT
I can understand your point. I just don't like all the sharp corners of a PW being covered with bubble wrap. If PP really needs to be addressed, I would advocate less regulation of PP/PVP, rather then more. In a town filled with adventurers (see: professional killers), with priceless treasure everywhere, I would expect a little confrontation from time to time. Then, expect might not be strong enough a word. Could do some no drop loot, could make anti pp devices (which, BTW I think mobs should have just as much right to carry as players), but Id rather accept the fact that, like fugue-ing, eventually some one is going to take some of my stuff, but at least I have a good chance of getting it back, along with some of the fingers that took it.
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Post by Dannecrot on Aug 25, 2006 7:49:40 GMT
especially if it's a subrace or an item your entire wardrobe depends on. 1.subrace: If the subrace is that important to you, you'd get it quickly, the chances of someone PPing that particular item in the short time it would take you to get the subrace are small. 2.Item: People can only PP things from your bag, not from what you're wearing, so I don't see how you can loose an item which your wardrobe depends on if all it's doing is sitting in your bag. Although there is always the chance of someone taking a resistance ring, or an item which you can't put in the persistent chests, or *gasp* a healing pak!
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