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Post by dodrudon on Aug 25, 2006 10:04:08 GMT
Hmm, good point about the subrace. However, for point 2, if you're holding onto something you can't use till next level.... Either way it just sucks losing an item, almost as sucky as rolling last in a large loot split Also, is the item PPed completely chosen at random? And I've never actually seen PP being used, on a mob or PC....
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 25, 2006 13:20:42 GMT
Yup, at random from inventory. There are various myths floating around about how to decrease the likelihood of a particular item being snatched, but I wouldn't put any stock in them. PP can be VERY handy against certain mobs, too. Funky
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Post by Balduvard on Aug 25, 2006 13:44:45 GMT
I would suggest something that provides an added defense against PP, but doesn't outright limit the ability by itself. As I see it, when the target makes the opposed spot check--they should be able to keep an item that they see being stolen. So a simple GetIsSkillSuccessful(Pickpocket vs. DC [Spot ranks]) can cover that.
Though I'm still rooting for the magical keyfob ring.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Aug 25, 2006 19:12:58 GMT
I'd go for a magical keyfob ring. Do you have any idea how many keys I routinely carry?
And of course, for me, the last thing I had PPed was...essentially, a key. One of the Immo books.
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Post by lala on Aug 25, 2006 20:01:28 GMT
I still stand by the use of a reputation system for PP playing character. Of course it may need too much work to give it a high-ish priority.
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Post by jillybean on Aug 26, 2006 0:00:32 GMT
I am upgrading my suggestion.
Make a PP-proof bag, make it lore (you can only carry 1 at a time) and don't put any weight reduction on it.
This way it will help to ensure that people only put their very very valuable stuff in it. Will also ensure that they can't put everything in it so rogue specters remain a challenge.
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Post by forge on Aug 26, 2006 6:30:03 GMT
Yeah funky its use is to piss people off and start problems. And as long as picking is alowed on hg you will always have that.
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Post by MilesAtma on Aug 29, 2006 2:48:49 GMT
The only problem i have with pp is that as far as I understand it there is no real defence. If you set it to a dc against spot, you essentially take away the option to defend against it from several class builds, i.e. sorc/pally/monk combo, pure cleric builds, pure druid builds. They won't stand a chance against rogue with full points allocated to pp as they can only take cross class points in spot. And the rogue type build has the option to gear up for a job while rarely will the mark have a gear set up with spot included in the mix. Too costly to use items with spot on them against mobs. The biggest pain with no defence is that the offender can pp and log out, allowing for no retaliation and limited opportunity to track him/her down. I have to admit I have not been the victim of more than one pp incidence, just brainstorming on how the powers that be might improve the balance of the event should a devious player decide to take advantage of the situation. Of course I really don't have anything to worry about as I only have common gear, but im worried about people like av , who has all the ur in the game.
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Post by lala on Aug 29, 2006 10:07:12 GMT
The other worry is that even if you have Spot maxed you are not going to equal a maxed PP from a dex rogue unless the build has equal amount of wisdom (which limits to caster druids and clerics who dont get Spot).
Its a shame but it is pretty easy to make a build that is never detected. I sound like a broken record ;D Add in a reputation system that penalises PP another playing char, and severely penalises for persistent PP of players.
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Post by khaine on Aug 29, 2006 22:14:52 GMT
Well really my first thought was making certain items un-PPable, like very rare items or subraces, because it is extremely annoying to have worked hard for an item, only to have it stolen. After a moment I thought that you could buy an item that prevented PP, but that is too powerfull, so how about a one-shot item that causes any PP attempt to steal that item, or destroy it or something. I am not familiar with PP rules, but I woul dassume that you can pickpocket repeatedly, so there could be a way of not letting any player pick-pocket the same character twice within say 10 mintutes P.S. I am new to the server and forum, post 1
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Post by thedomicron on Aug 29, 2006 22:46:05 GMT
would it be possible to tie pick pocket to an item like dragon breath? so that it had to recharge
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 29, 2006 22:51:23 GMT
P.S. I am new to the server and forum, post 1 Welcome! Funky
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Post by kaldair on Sept 2, 2006 1:35:29 GMT
*Puts on asbestos suit* There - I'm ready I'm seeing some huge problems with non-consensual PvP PP on HG to wit: Problem one is the repeated idea that PP is a tool to enforce/initiate frontier justice so DM involvement is not needed. In other words, unless you build a character w/points in PP, no justice for you, nor even an attempt. For a new character who doesn't have an Uber rogue-type in the bank, nor Uber rogue-type friends, nor any interst in a build w/PP, what shall they do? The second problem is the repeated idea that "If you don't like being PP'd and you follow the rules, it's fine to just kill the fool." Nice sentiment unless your lvl 3 magic user is going up against a lvl 2 or higher melee type, or any other of 100 million possible encounters where the victim doesn't have a chance in the Nine Hells to again, carry out frontier justice. The third problem is actually a combination of the first two. You find it needed to initiate a fight due to xyz legitimate problems. IF you are able to pickpocket, then you STILL have to be able to kill the fool. My conclusion is that frontier justice can only be dealt out by suber-Uber rogue-type characters who also have 60+ AB and 140+ AC in order that justice can be had, at least from their perspective, and the rules on HG regarding PP and PK. For the sake of argument, let's say that the point is more that "Any character can at least attempt a PP to start the frontier justice cycle". While that might eliminate concern one, it does not address number two and part of three. The only fair solution I can see is to limit the PP skill to PvM. I suppose you could set up an elaborate log checking algorithm that identifies the wrongdoer in the majority of the cases, but why go to all that trouble when simply disabling it would prevent all the hard feelings & complaints to DM's about idiots like the late Zarconias of infernal fame. Granted he finally got the boot, but at the expense of ruining I'm guessing dozen's of players HG experience and permanently driving off one (at least he told me he quit I hope he comes back) or more new players who need an adjustment time to become addicted like the rest of us => In fact, as I post this, I wonder about a grace period (I'd say less than lvl 40 but I'm harsh) where PvP PP is not possible? Might keep from driving off the fresh monster fodder at least in about three cases I've seen or been involved in *Hunkers down* Flame on
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Post by whodat1 on Sept 2, 2006 3:31:39 GMT
Focus on the phrase "frontier justice" - its justice through might makes right. It has nothing to to with fair, it gives you a means to defend yourself when there is no DM presence.
Your solution does not address number two or three either. So instead of PPing you first, a player kills you, loots the area you were exping, and corpse camps you until you fugue. Ive still lost loot and have not had fun.
This eliminates PP. Thats all it does. Its not going to stop people breaking server rules in relation to pvp, nor will it help one bit. All it seems to do is take away one of my defenses against illegal player activity, which I am not for.
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Post by lala on Sept 2, 2006 9:02:02 GMT
I am sorry whodat1 but I really do think there should be a penalty to PP players, even if its to initiate a PvP. It worries me when players feel indifferent about using PP as either a means of "extreme negotiation/discussion" or a way to provoke PvP.
While PP in terms of a world is not as bad as player killing, NPCs would be wary and even scared of players who do this for gain or to initiate justice...... Meaning any player PP should be penalised, and persistant player PP severely penalised until each action is forgiven at a price. That would be closer to a fronter concept.
As I said before, its pretty easy to make a char that is never spotted for PP, especially when combined with certain tactics. I am sure there are a few players who have done this.
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