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Post by kaldair on Sept 6, 2006 15:38:10 GMT
Hiyas Funky & HG Community, I know I saw some discussions on various ideas regarding the test area but I couldn't find them again so I thought maybe a title including that topic would make it easier on everyone? Here goes: 1) Have the orc deal damage to test naked AC and more especially DR. Might come in handy for certain feat (Think tumble) decisions as well. This would help in the analysis of class DR stacking & effects of DR in builds in general ... 2) Perhaps another NPC to deal all the magic type damages? In order to compare different build concepts using endless combinations of saves & SR's from the different classes & feats, as well as Spellcraft effects ... 3) Clicking on weap rack gives 1 each of the weaps that any feat has been taken in (to allow for multiple focuses or feat selections in different weaps) ... 4) Clicking on an armour dummy (No I WON'T volunteer! *Glares*) gives an easily obtainable lvl 40 armour/robe (Larger of Str or Dex determines which) & shield (if applicable). The other slots seem too variable to me to be able to treat simply ... 5) Allow the 20 LL's to test what various choices in the final feats, skills & stats will produce ... Ummm as I read this it sounds like a lot I know but if it really caught on with the community it might help nerf some of the awful builds & disappointments for the newer folx (Like my first tune was a Monk/PM with fantastic AC but no uncanny dodge so died unbelievably fast to archers considering I had 126 AC with no UR's ...)
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Post by kaldair on Sept 6, 2006 15:50:59 GMT
Hmmm,
I saw a discrepancy in my post & it triggered another idea hehe ;PP
The discrepancy I saw was asking for lvl 40 armour when the orc doesn't dish out lvl 40 damage - which got me thinking (Run!!!!!!) ...
What about scaling the orc's damage & AC & the magic user's damage and the Weap & armour racks' items to the toon's level? Thus, if you were trying to test playability of various choices regarding when to take lvls in a class, you could compare those choices (i.e. taking the rogue lvl at 1, 20 or 40 ...)
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Post by Balduvard on Sept 6, 2006 17:29:19 GMT
I'm going to base most of my response on the belief that the test area is more for testing your actual build, not for what your build is capable of. It is meant to allow players to be sure that what they want to do with their level-ups is possible so that mistakes aren't made when they are actually building their characters in the module. That said, I proceed to dissect these suggestions. 1) Can't have the orc do anything but stand there. If he is given the right to move, he could follow players back to the beginning and start wreaking havoc on players still trying to level up. Solutions to this of course are possible, but why do you need to test AC/DR? You should know what it is and where it is at. If you really want to test it, do it with pen and paper--we'll say the orc has an AB of 35 and a Str of 20, with weapon specialization battleaxe for the +3 battleaxe he is wielding. The str modifier for 20 str is 5, +3 from enchantment and +2 from weapon specialization is 10 physical damage plus whatever the damage roll pops up (1d8 for battleaxe). So at most he'll do 18 physical damage to your character. Based on your feats and classes, you should be able to carry out the remaining math. Much the same goes for AC; if his AB is lower than your AC--he won't hit (amazing)! Unless of course he rolls a 20... 2) Not really sure how this would be useful. You should be able to use from your experiences in the PW what levels of SR and saving throws are effective, and you should be able to see from your character sheet what your SR and saving throws are. For instances where the SR and saving throws will change (i.e. through LL additions) the calculations are still simple enough not to demand any additional systems. 3) A focus in one weapon is the same as the focus in another (unless that weapon uses a different primary ability for attack rolls or is double-sided and hits you with the dual-wield penalties if you don't have the feats). Again, relatively simple math. 4) Not sure what you feel you need armor for in a place where the only hostile creature doesn't actually attack you . Though if intended to be connected with 1), the armor again is another easily calculable item. Provided you know the stats on your given armor, you can simply add those to your character sheet. For example, all of the dexers I make I add +14 to their AC to accommodate for the UR robes. Str tanks of course will have different numbers for armor, along with other things (DR/DI) that you may wish to take into consideration with your calculations 5) While good in theory, not entirely sure it would be worth setting up a system to perform all the leto edits on these test characters outside of the Altar. Not to mention I'm fairly sure that the LL conversation cannot be occurring in more than one place--so the altar must remain the only place LLs can be added. I will make another post referencing a post I already made on how LLs can also be easily calculated. Like most things in this game, your build can be laid out without actually seeing it work. It just requires some knowledge of the game (the changes books here, personal experience, nwnwiki is useful...sometimes, when all else fails you can ask other people) and some time to invest in your calculations. I know I've been trying to work on a build now for a few days but still haven't come to a consensus on which set of calculations I ended up liking the most. Regardless, I have not seen a real need for any of the suggestions you have listed here, and I hope my explanations will help you to work without them.
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Post by Balduvard on Sept 6, 2006 17:31:18 GMT
Previous post regarding LL additions: I believe it is assumed that you know how to add the bonuses attained from legendary levels, and in many of the posts it specifically outlines what feats, skills, and abilities you should be taking in legendary levels. But for those posts that might only post the final stats at level 40, most of the time you can just do the following: -Add 10 + x to the primary ability (where x is the number of Great Ability feats you will take in LL) -Add 5 to the saving throws -Add 7 feats of your choice -Add (HitDice + Con Modifier + Toughness) * 20 to the build's HP. If you are upping your constitution throughout LL, you cannot do a simple calculation, you have to do calculations for each level as the modifier changes and add them up at the end, along with the (Con Modifier Added * 40) for retroactive hitpoint gain. HitPoints gained are not retroactive for LL, so increasing your con modifier will only effect levels before 40 and levels you have not yet taken. It's a complicated system that has several nuances, but I hope that explanation worked. There are other small factors that I didn't mention in the above breakdown, but the above points are usually the important ones.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Sept 6, 2006 18:08:37 GMT
Pretty much what baldy said. The only reason the test dummy is there is so you can get actual ab feedback from the combat log, and guage criticals. Everything that you are requesting is far easier to calculate than ab (which isn't all that hard), except the LL altar. With respect to the altar, we could add a portal to allow access to it, but as Baldy says it's a one-at-a-time convo, and we didnt want it tied up for hours with test builds.
Funky
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Post by kaldair on Sept 6, 2006 19:37:03 GMT
I appreciate both Balduvard & Funky taking the time to answer my post. The commitment your team puts into this game both on & off line is a major reason HG needs 5 servers to accomodate their fans while all the other PW's get by with one, if they last at all ...
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Post by kaldair on Sept 8, 2006 0:00:30 GMT
Well now that I can sit down again after Baldy's effective application of the board of education, here's my Excel attempt at calculating a Barby's HP's through LL's,
Level Con Incr Con Modif Lvl HP Total HP's HD Tough 40 1 22 6 59 760 12 1 41 0 22 6 19 779 42 1 23 6 59 838 43 0 23 6 19 857 44 1 24 7 60 917 45 0 24 7 20 937 46 1 25 7 60 997 47 0 25 7 20 1017 48 1 26 8 61 1078 49 0 26 8 21 1099 50 1 27 8 61 1160 51 0 27 8 21 1181 52 1 28 9 62 1243 53 0 28 9 22 1265 54 1 29 9 62 1327 55 0 29 9 22 1349 56 1 30 10 63 1412 57 0 30 10 23 1435 58 1 31 10 63 1498 59 0 31 10 23 1521 60 1 32 11 64 1585
I'm looking forward to your corrections ...
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Post by kaldair on Sept 8, 2006 0:02:21 GMT
Drat the boards took out all my perfectly lined up spaces ;<
In the future, what is the best way to post a columnar format?
Thanks again guys ...
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Post by whodat1 on Sept 8, 2006 2:00:40 GMT
{table}{tr}{td}look{/td}{td}at{/td}{/tr}{tr}{td}code{/td}{td}below{/td}{/tr}{/table} (replace {}'s with brackets)
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Post by jillybean on Sept 8, 2006 2:03:56 GMT
Using | the | table | insert | buttons | above |
Or just going straight HTML, which ever is easier! for my money, html is probably easier, the table thing is cumbersome and time-consuming imho
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Post by kaldair on Sept 8, 2006 16:41:06 GMT
Okies, here's a table that calculates the max HP for a Gnoll Barby taking nothing but Con increases and feats - strictly to see if I'm calculating HP correctly ... Lvl | Con Incr | Con | Modif | Lvl HP | Totl HP's | HD | Tough | 40 | 1 | 41 | 15 | 68 | 1120 | 12 | 1 | 41 | 0 | 41 | 15 | 28 | 1148 | 42 | 1 | 42 | 16 | 69 | 1217 | 43 | 0 | 42 | 16 | 29 | 1246 | 44 | 1 | 43 | 16 | 69 | 1315 | 45 | 0 | 43 | 16 | 29 | 1344 | 46 | 1 | 44 | 17 | 70 | 1414 | 47 | 0 | 44 | 17 | 30 | 1444 | 48 | 1 | 45 | 17 | 70 | 1514 | 49 | 0 | 45 | 17 | 30 | 1544 | 50 | 1 | 46 | 18 | 71 | 1615 | 51 | 0 | 46 | 18 | 31 | 1646 | 52 | 1 | 47 | 18 | 71 | 1717 | 53 | 0 | 47 | 18 | 31 | 1748 | 54 | 1 | 48 | 19 | 72 | 1820 | 55 | 0 | 48 | 19 | 32 | 1852 | 56 | 1 | 49 | 19 | 72 | 1924 | 57 | 0 | 49 | 19 | 32 | 1956 | 58 | 1 | 50 | 20 | 73 | 2029 | 59 | 0 | 50 | 20 | 33 | 2062 | 60 | 1 | 51 | 20 | 73 | 2135 |
Let me know where/if I went wrong & my education will continue ... Thanks! =)
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Post by dapperdave on Sept 8, 2006 17:09:04 GMT
You seem to have added 40 too many hps on every even level and also you haven't taken into account the LL barb stat increases (+1dex,str,con) every 5 LLs
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Post by kaldair on Sept 8, 2006 17:46:47 GMT
Thanks for the reply! Indeed I forgot the 5 lvl con increases! As for the 40 extra hitpoints per every even level, I misunderstood this comment from Baldy ... "...along with the (Con Modifier Added * 40) for retroactive hitpoint gain." Since I am only adding a con modifier at lvls 42, 45, 48, 54, 56 and 60 I think I need to only multiply those modifier increases by 40 for the retroactive hitpoint gain. This has been very educational for me W/O posting the whole table again, I come up with 2032 HP's at lvl 60. Once more, I humbly ask for a check on the math ... Thanks again!
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Post by Balduvard on Sept 8, 2006 20:33:28 GMT
I got 2272 hit points when I calculated it Start with what you would have retroactively, 40 levels of barbarian with a con modifier of 28...(40 * (d12+28)) = 1600. I removed Toughness from this part since we'll just add it as a flat 60 at the end. After calculating the final retroactive HP, then comes the task of figuring out what HP gains you get from your legendary progression. I just jotted down these quick lists to do my calculations: Legendary progression:
41: +0 42: +1 43: +0 44: +1 45: +1 46: +1 47: +0 48: +1 49: +0 50: +2 51: +0 52: +1 53: +0 54: +1 55: +1 56: +1 57: +0 58: +1 59: +0 60: +2 Total: +14 | Legendary Con (Modifier):
41: 41 (15) 42: 42 (16) 43: 42 (16) 44: 43 (16) 45: 44 (17) 46: 45 (17) 47: 45 (17) 48: 46 (18) 49: 46 (18) 50: 48 (19) 51: 48 (19) 52: 49 (19) 53: 49 (19) 54: 50 (20) 55: 51 (20) 56: 52 (21) 57: 52 (21) 58: 53 (21) 59: 53 (21) 60: 55 (22)
| Legendary Additions (Modifier + d12):
41: 27 42: 28 43: 28 44: 28 45: 29 46: 29 47: 29 48: 30 49: 30 50: 31 51: 31 52: 31 53: 31 54: 32 55: 32 56: 33 57: 33 58: 33 59: 33 60: 34 Total: 612 |
So taking our results from there, we add... Retroactive HP: 1600 Legendary HP: 612 Toughness: 60 Total HP: 2272 It seems a little high to me, but I'm not sure where it could be wrong. I have a L54 con focus build that has just over 2000 HP, but he only has 59 Con...so 2272 may in fact be correct.
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Post by kaldair on Sept 8, 2006 21:45:59 GMT
Okies,
I redid my calculations the way you did yours and am still confused on one point ;/
You stated in your most recent post "...40 levels of barbarian with a con modifier of 28...(40 * (d12+28)) = 1600." If I understand the terminology correctly, I THINK that should read "40 levels of barbarian with a con modifier of 15...(40*(d12+15)) = 1080." Thus: Retroactive HP: 1080 Legendary HP: 612 Toughness: 60 Total HP: 1752
Now that's weird. You're first impression that the number was too high is apparently true (making the huge assumption I'm right about the Con modifier), yet your own char has over 2000, which is odd unless the toon started with more than the 20 Con a gnoll starts with?
Thanks again for the help!
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