|
Post by hermyt on Nov 12, 2006 21:28:59 GMT
Is there any chance you guys would consider improving the time stop script? There are some better one's available on the vault or I made one for my own server a few years back that is quite good.
Problems I see with the current one are: 1. Creatures frequently break time stop, sometimes just moving other times fully breaking, this is usually due to using cutscenedominate instead of cutsceneparalyze, the dominate effect doesn't always stick and sometimes the ai overrides.
2. The timestop effect timestops everyone in your party regardless of location. While I understand the underlying idea that it keeps party members from joining in and warping into a fight while the timestop effect is on, thus bypassing getting frozen. There are nicer more effective ways of achieving this in a local area without freezing the entire party regardless of zone.
One method that I haven't seen anyone other than myself use is via using area effect emitter on the caster. It's persistent for the duration of the timestop if I remember correctly its effectareaofeffect or something to that regards (have to look it back up). You can make a custom sized one (custom sized AOE minus graphic or with) in the vfx_persistent.2da file and throw it in the servers override. It causes no problems because the scripts calling it are serverside so it doesnt' need to be client local (hence no hackpack but small local 2da edit). If you choose not to use the 2da edit you can just use an existing AOE emitter size, like dragon's fear for example, (althought that one is pretty small, I prefer to make it about 40' as thats the visual range on the server so no cheating that way).
I have a script done and its been in use and tested for quite awhile before, would just have to gut it out of my old module and tidy up the commenting.
Let me know if you're interested.
hermyt
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 12, 2006 22:36:21 GMT
Cutscene paralysis causes a dex bug, and the issue is due to monsters spawning after the spell hits, not the use of cutscene dominate. Making timestop AoE would make it exploitable. And to be honest, I probably wouldn'y change it if there was a better way - the lag spawning means that casters have to exercise some caution in their use of the spell. Funky
|
|
|
Post by hermyt on Nov 12, 2006 23:04:59 GMT
Hmm if you say so, but I've distinctly watched creatures break ts on numerous occasions and not from spawning after the spell is cast either. I wasn't aware there's a dex bug in cutscene paralyze but I'll take your word for it but its commonly known that domination has an ai bug in it that the ai will often override and take action.
As for exploitability, effectareaofeffect is an emitter effect which ticks on heartbeat you just put a decaying effect on the parlysis while the emittereffect lasts which re-applies every 6 seconds (I used to do 5.5) as long as the spell lasts, that way there's no way to break the effect and anyone that breaks it or tries to port into the aoe gets timestopped, unlike now where pc's can actually port in after a timestop is cast and be unaffected.
Don't get me wrong I think your server rocks, its awesomely done and your scripting is top notch, thats why I thought the budget vers of timestop was a little odd, most people stopped using that style awhile ago because its pretty broken.
But I figured I would just bring it to your attention, I figured if you were using the bad one it might just be that no dev's have really noticed or used it, or you were unaware that there are better alternatives. If thats not the case then my bad.
hermyt
|
|
|
Post by thedomicron on Nov 13, 2006 8:16:40 GMT
let me start by saying i don't understand any of the jargon you guys are using to talk about the mechanics of TS. also i would LOVE if ts was limited to aoe so that if i'm in town picking up supplies ts doesn't slow me down.
that being said, monsters breaking ts to me seems ok. while i understand its not supposed to happen, its pretty easy for me to deal with, when i use the spell. a quick grabbie hand usually fixes the problem.
|
|
|
Post by chainlink on Nov 13, 2006 10:04:34 GMT
I can see why ts aoe would cause an exploit problem though, caster "I'll ts after you lot have all moved to the previous area (or town) then you can come back in and mush everything out of ts" that would be quite nasty.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 13, 2006 14:44:18 GMT
Hmm if you say so, but I've distinctly watched creatures break ts on numerous occasions and not from spawning after the spell is cast either. I wasn't aware there's a dex bug in cutscene paralyze but I'll take your word for it but its commonly known that domination has an ai bug in it that the ai will often override and take action. As for exploitability, effectareaofeffect is an emitter effect which ticks on heartbeat you just put a decaying effect on the parlysis while the emittereffect lasts which re-applies every 6 seconds (I used to do 5.5) as long as the spell lasts, that way there's no way to break the effect and anyone that breaks it or tries to port into the aoe gets timestopped, unlike now where pc's can actually port in after a timestop is cast and be unaffected. Don't get me wrong I think your server rocks, its awesomely done and your scripting is top notch, thats why I thought the budget vers of timestop was a little odd, most people stopped using that style awhile ago because its pretty broken. But I figured I would just bring it to your attention, I figured if you were using the bad one it might just be that no dev's have really noticed or used it, or you were unaware that there are better alternatives. If thats not the case then my bad. hermyt I'm not going to elaborate on the AoE exploit, sorry. I have yet to witness either a PC or a monster break cutscene dominate, but them, our ai is modded, so who knows. If you can document a monster doing so I'd be curious to see it. I've never seen any mention of such an ai bug on the scripting forums or anywhere else, so it can't be all that well known if in fact it operates as you describe. Funky
|
|
|
Post by sabregirl on Nov 15, 2006 16:32:52 GMT
I'm assuming this is the sort of TS bug that's being discusssed. If so, it happened 2-3 times last night in the SSith alone. I notice it more with mobs using TS than PCs but then I don't party with mages that use TS frequently. Here's a shot of an instance of mob-cast TS-disobedience We were busy beating on the S'gobs a good 30 seconds before the SSithrak mages in the back, spawned (considerable amount of lag spawning last evening) and one of them TSed. Everything froze except for the S'Gob on the right which decided its attack was just to important to stop and kept on swinging regardless of TS. Forutunately in this case it was unable to hit Shinkicker even flat-footed. But in the next room the same thing happened with one of the snakes, causing the pimp-daddy-atomie's untimely demise (don't worry there were plenty of rez scrolls to be had). Sadly, I wasn't in the room at the time so I couldn't get a clear shot of that one. -S
|
|
|
Post by cathedralmaster on Nov 15, 2006 17:35:04 GMT
I'm assuming this is the sort of TS bug that's being discusssed. If so, it happened 2-3 times last night in the SSith alone. I notice it more with mobs using TS than PCs but then I don't party with mages that use TS frequently. Happens a good number of times in the desert when I cast TS, especially when it's a large spawn - even though they've been spawned long before TS was cast, they'll still continue attacking during TS. Not really a bother really except when it's a Droc that beats it. I always thought it was just a manifestation of the same bug that let's PCs sometimes beat TS (which you see most frequently in Raz's). Is it possibly related to the extra lag I seem to get there when I cast an AOE after I've timestopped (usually see it in the cinder flats most often), which seems to be considerably worse than when I cast an AOE non TSed? When I cast an AoE TSed, everything completely stops - if it's a wail, I'm left with my hands in the air and though initial white trails finish their animation, the second part where everything dies does not occur till after the delay - and this delay persists usually around I'd say 10 seconds or so before the spell resolves.
|
|
|
Post by Yomi on Nov 15, 2006 20:32:00 GMT
I've seen the "some mob ignores TS" bug in Ssith pretty often. One of the Bssgir's cast TS and sometimes one of the other Ssithrak is uneffected. Not so bad with lots of conceal, but not so nice for folks without since you're flatfooted. I've seen snakes, S'gobs, and S'jabs all manage this. I've just viewed it as one of the risks you take down there -- it can be a bit more dangerous than you were expecting. As sabre says, sometimes it's humorous as they swish at you, sometimes a little disconcerting as they hit a time or two, and other times they'll kill someone.
I don't cast timestop myself enough to know issues with it other than that when a mage spams timestop the mobs seem to get one free attack in the middle against the meleer's flatfooted, while the party can't even get a heal drink in even if hitting the hotkey repeatedly (or a rez for that matter). Just one reason melee type usually hate mages using timestop in party (it can be quite useful, but it's rare to see it used well and far too common to see the mage use it to heal and rebuff or to cast mini damage spells that sure didn't need TS).
|
|
|
Post by cathedralmaster on Nov 15, 2006 21:27:34 GMT
it can be quite useful, but it's rare to see it used well IMO, it is something you can only learn with experience and people are going to die till you've figured it all out, but once you've got it down, it's incredibly useful to turn around the way a battle is going. In particular, the best uses I've found for it is first against Cerebramancers and Ectocloners in thids who usually get into all kinds of mischief if left to wreak havoc, and second to res fallen party members in the desert (who are subsequently unaffected by TS). Until you have figured it out though, you'll be snatching defeat from the jaws of victory quite a bit.
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 15, 2006 23:13:42 GMT
Anyone seen anything about the domination bug on the bioboards? It still wouldn't account for PCs ignoring it, but it'd be interesting to see if there's anything to it. Funky
|
|
|
Post by resonance378 on Nov 16, 2006 22:37:10 GMT
Frequently have my dex monkey ignoring TS. I can't do any physical damage, but I can move around freely. This also happens a lot in Rhaz, which I'm sure you are away. The other day in a Rhaz session we had a group of skeletons ignore TS cast by the spectre(s) and come after us I honestly don't mind they way it is now. It adds a little bit of fear to the game With TS, you'll never know what you're going to get!
|
|
|
Post by maudlin27 on Nov 21, 2006 8:47:59 GMT
I'd constantly have problems with enemies ignoring time-stop after being spawned in the desert. I'd try to cast ts, then run away and set up a wall, and I'd ALWAYS have at least 1 living sand break away and follow me, resulting in my quick death once the ts wore off. I since learned to rely on gs to set up the wall, and haven't found that much of a use for ts now.
As it is couldn't ts be exploited anyway, far more easily than the exploit possible if it was changed? After all you just say 'I'll cast ts now, then ill invite you, and you all port over quickly and attack them while they're ts'd'?
Enemies ignoring ts because they're spawned after its cast isn't quite such a big issue for me as you learn to just be sure you've spawned the enemies before you cast ts (though it is annoying in places like razh where the enemies cast ts, and more enemies spawn and ignore it).
Of course time-stop isn't that great normally anyway if you have lag (in other words whenever a desert run is going on the server), as while normally you can get 4 spells cast while under ts and start the 5th, with heavy lag that comes down to 1-2 spells, which kind of gets rid of the point of it in alot of situations!
Not sure how feasible hermyt's solution is (been a while since I've scripted for nwn), but if the scripts all ready, and it'd work better than the current one both with ts working, and preventing exploits, it'd be nice if it could be added!
|
|
|
Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 21, 2006 15:10:09 GMT
As it is couldn't ts be exploited anyway, far more easily than the exploit possible if it was changed? After all you just say 'I'll cast ts now, then ill invite you, and you all port over quickly and attack them while they're ts'd'? Have you actually tried this? The transition time eats up a lot of the TS time. As far as the other solution goes, there's little reason to think that the other scripts will be an improvement, and they introduce a fairly severe bug, as I explained above. Funky
|
|
|
Post by maudlin27 on Nov 22, 2006 8:48:37 GMT
I just reasoned that if this was a vaild reason against the new script, it was an equally valid reason against the current one, as the area transition time in both cases would be the same. At the end of it you wouldn't have time for many actions anyway (at a guess I'd estimate maybe you could get 1 spell off before the ts wore off, or a couple of attacks, if you were lucky) so there wouldn't be any point to doing it in either of the situations anyway. If done on an aoe that's not large enough to cover the whole area I guess I could think of a couple of other exploits that would arise from the new script (I won't list them here for obvious reasons as they would be more feasible than the porting one), but equally it might be possible to find solutions to these. I wouldn't know if it'd have a detrimental effect on lag though (which is already very bad in some sandy areas!), and was merely commenting in the hope that the script might turn out to be the 'wonder script' where it doesn't cause any more problems or exploits, and fixes a couple of bugs at the same time. After all, one should always hope
|
|