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Post by versengeteriks on Oct 25, 2006 22:39:27 GMT
:-P youll have a whole guild of None in that case, cos to be in or runa guild u gotta be lvl 30 + so ner ner na ner ner :-PPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP
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Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 25, 2006 22:44:12 GMT
Fine we'll just used "failed character" banks We can call the Bank and Crafter's Guild....or something more creative. Tyran
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Post by whodat1 on Oct 26, 2006 0:02:26 GMT
What a childish thing to do.
Unless your joking, I cant figure it out.
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Post by Grudge on Oct 26, 2006 1:03:12 GMT
I have been playing for a while now and I can't tell you who half the leaders are on dock guild list never mind which players are in what group. Far as I can tell 80% of the guilds are defunct/inactive and the large majority of the others are loose associations of new players. What if I wanted to join a group? It has crossed my mind.... but half the time the leaders are inactive while the core may still be playing. But who would know! Most of the groups have no public information as to what they are about. I could always just start my own guild and get everyone who wants a token a token. I'll call it Bankers of HG and it will be run by run by my bank Banki Bankinson. is it just me or does this not make much sence? ~grudge
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Post by cathedralmaster on Oct 26, 2006 1:21:28 GMT
As a member you cannot be held responsible who is in your guild, and you shouldn't get on someones blacklist or risk exclusion because you joined a guild. I've never bought that exuse. You joined a guild, became a part of and associated with their orginization, but you don't want to be associated with the conduct of some of the members of your guild? Look, you joined a guild. Like it or not, that associates you with the actions of that guild. The association is entirely voluntary on your part so your responsible for it. It's part of what being a member of any orginization is. Someone in your guild acts stupid? Well, you choose to be a part of that guild. Your a part of a guild that at least allows stupidity or invites members that engage in stupidity. If you don't like what that means - if you don't like being associated with that - then you need to re-evaluate your association, just like if your guild doesn't like being associated with something, they need to evaluate their association with that something - whether that means cleaning house or being more strict in who they let in. You can't just say your part of a guild and expect to be able to share only in the positives of that arrangement. Your part of a guild, that means like it or not you get the whole package.
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Post by Grudge on Oct 26, 2006 1:47:22 GMT
Someone in your guild acts stupid? Well, you choose to be a part of that guild. Your a part of a guild that at least allows stupidity or invites members that engage in stupidity. If you don't like what that means - if you don't like being associated with that - then you need to re-evaluate your association, just like if your guild doesn't like being associated with something, they need to evaluate their association with that something - whether that means cleaning house or being more strict in who they let in. the stupidity you are talking about has nothing to do with guilds, thats simply about individuals. nothing there a blacklist is going so solve ~grudge
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Post by whodat1 on Oct 26, 2006 4:16:14 GMT
* The list suggestion is a knee jerk reaction to the eo/apoc thread. * Its about gaining information to blacklist people. I know others can give excuses of how its beneficial, but its silly to act oblivious to the original intent.
I agree with your statements cath, but consider the context of this thread. These guilds are taking responsibility and have suffered denigration - for an issue that was caused by an impostor. And so should they bear the additional burden of this list used to segregate them? Your right, a guild needs to deal with the positives and negatives of the arrangement, but this shouldn't be part of the package.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 26, 2006 8:02:08 GMT
Bah its not a knee jerk reaction at all. I was going to post that anyway long before the whole fiasco went down. A lot of the people I have been hanging around with have either retired or have taken a break for a while. Change happens. I figured it was a good time to start looking for a guild to join and couldn't find any information except for some obscure posts here and there.
The recent situation just only shows you how not having information available to the whole player base can backfire. Secrecy only serves to weaken an already bland guild system. The purpose of the guild system is supposedly PK. How much Pk activity is there on the server.....aside from the occasional random wacko I've seen none. I've played on other persistent worlds with vibrant guild/pk systems and helped run a very successful guild on one of them with 30 active players in it at one point. Our best advertisement was our membership list. It fueled our membership growth and helped build alliances with other guilds. The system could never have worked if that kind of information was secret. New players were the lifeblood of our guild and generally it was them coming to us for membership.
Also, keeping membership lists secret to the general public offends me. This why I'd consider creating something as stupid as a bankers guild. I believe that everyone has the RIGHT to know even if they are not in a guild. While incredibly stupid, the guild would provide everyone the means to have access to information. There's no risk to members since all non tokened toons are immune to guild activities and inactive characters likely never leave the sanctity of town anyway. I don't care if you don't like what I want to do with the information when I get. I feel its my right to have it. Feel free to disagree with me. I don't disrespect you for your opinion but at this point we disagree.
Tyran
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Post by mubu on Oct 26, 2006 9:11:33 GMT
People were blacklisting long before the guilds were added hehehe and it will continue to go on long after the guild fad has faded away again, I do not believe that the knowledge of guild membership will make it any worse than it already is nor do i believe it will be any better not knowing.
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Post by phalthallus on Oct 26, 2006 16:31:49 GMT
I would agree that there needs to be more info on the guilds themselves, regardless if we put each person in the guild on a list. I think a number of people want to know about guilds, but don't know who to ask, or where to find the information. What about just putting a sticky at the top of the Guid Chat where the leader of each officially recognized guild in HG can post 1 statement/paragraph about what their guild represents. Or maybe they send that to Funky who posts and locks that thread.
I personally did not join either of the guilds I chose because I wanted to do any kind of PK. If we do go to battle sometime, fine, but I joined because I wanted an easier way of finding like-minded players in the world. I've met and partied with a whole host of people who I might not normally get to because of joining the guilds. It's helped me add people to my NWN buddy list, so I can quickly find people who I'd never partied with before and knew nothing about. I'm just saying that I think there are multiple reasons to join a guild.
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Post by infamy on Oct 26, 2006 17:09:37 GMT
If you are interested in a guild, why not just ask a member who is online? Don't see any online? Probably a bad sign as far as that guilds activity is concerned. We have had no shortage of people wishing to join the McFobs, and it does seem to be stopping. All people do is ask a member, and bingo, the process starts again. That said, we are very easy to find since we all have "McFob" at the end of our character names, so that is probably the reason. I think ultimately guilds with secret lists will have to endure relatively fewer members, while more open guilds could probably see less of an advantage in PVP(as it is tougher to figure out who is in the opposing guild). Cheers, Infamy PS: Build that Bankers guild, that is the funniest thing I have heard in a long time
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Post by flynn01 on Oct 26, 2006 17:17:05 GMT
I likewise did not join a guild for PK, I try to avoid that as much as possible. (I guess being backstabbed too many tmes in my Starcraft days).
However, Tyran, I do support your idea of getting information into hands of the players so that they might make better informed decisions about the game playing experience they wish to have on HG. You need at least 4 to start a guild. I'll donate one of my failed, over 30, builds to your roster if you choose to implement your idea. It is a non-game-altering, peaceful, with-in-rules way to accomplish the goal of distributing information that only a relative few have access to. It only lists who is on at the moment and their guild affiliation, or lack thereof. This is already public information to those who take the steps to get it (join a guild).
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Post by Grudge on Oct 26, 2006 21:39:22 GMT
I would agree that there needs to be more info on the guilds themselves, regardless if we put each person in the guild on a list. I think a number of people want to know about guilds, but don't know who to ask, or where to find the information. What about just putting a sticky at the top of the Guid Chat where the leader of each officially recognized guild in HG can post 1 statement/paragraph about what their guild represents. Or maybe they send that to Funky who posts and locks that thread. tbh, this really dosent sound like too bad of idea. I really dont mind people knowing who i am associated with. And if i manage to make it to your blacklist, chances are, you where on mine first . The whole thing that bugs me about the automated list is that its *manditory*. I dont mind giving up some names, but i would much rather prefer you ask me for them rather than sneak them out from under me. I'm sure other guild heads can relate to this. ~grudge
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Post by bondo on Oct 27, 2006 3:19:20 GMT
Tyran not sure how other guilds work but in mine if we want a new member we ask them if they would like to join. if this is just so u can join a guild u could always post on the forums that you are looking or even in the msg boards on the sever.
But what it sounds like to me is that u want to have a list of all guild members so you don't join a guild the has people in it that is on your blacklist.
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Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 27, 2006 18:40:18 GMT
You've got me all wrong Bondo. I don't keep a "blacklist" per say....because a blacklist is something you can't get off of. I'll give you example. I had many repeated obnoxious encounters with the player username Postal. This came to a climax when I took him on a run and he "Leeroy Jenkin's" style massed a major tag area, got himself killed, and everyone else with him. I fugued and he ended up calling my wife "a cunt" after she repeatedly asked him to stop behaving like an idiot. Needless to say I had enough of him for a while at that point. However, I don't believe in an eternal damnation approach to things. There is room for forgiveness if a person's behavior improves. This issue is behavior not the person. Which is what, imo, happened with that player after a few months of isolation. Sure he still had the emotional IQ of a 5 year old, but I found him even pleasant at times. I suspect he pissed off the wrong people, because he's gone missing as of late . Change happens where there is crisis. Whether your changing careers, changing mates, or changing behavior there is usually some wake up call or event that leads to that change. When a person is isolated in a largely group oriented playerworld.....they can come to two conclusions... have a moment of self insight... a kind of "wow...I'm an asshole. Maybe I should change" sort of moment or have no insight, get bored, and leave. Having a group of people supporting that kind of behavior only suppresses thats person's personal growth and empowers their behavior. Which is why they are guilty by association though they may be decent people themselves. As a knowledgeable player, I must decide where I want to spend my time. If I help random people, I advocate for no change. If I choose to spend my time selectively, I shape the game in a direction that I see as best. For example, if I see that there is a guild who has high standards but are new to the game I can help them learn the major areas and get good equipment. This will allow them grow and become very powerful. They will be able to dominate the major areas of the game and will be a powerful force in the PK world. At the same time the group that is invisible and harbors obnoxious players is left to it own. As their members retire and are not replenished, they will become increasingly isolated. They will find they have passe equipment, and become increasingly out of touch with new areas. Eventually that group will die. The atmosphere of guild secrecy as it stands serves nobody. It weakens the guild system and confuses the player base (both new and vet players). Member lists support guild growth, which supports friendship, which encourages a player to stick with the server, contribute etc. Tyran
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