BUR ring availability

[Trazik]

This thread is a half-rant at the extraordinarily low drop rate of BUR Immunity Rings relative to other BURs and the excessive trade value they command in the market. It goes without saying that these should be difficult to find, but my perception is that things are a bit extreme.

Here is a picture of the rings I transfer between each of my hell- and artifact-running characters, just to give you an idea of perspective I am finding:

Several things should be clear:
- only 2 BUR rings
- 1 rare ring (!)
- 4 Pyramid rings
- 1 Nessus Set Drop

The rest are URs. I have spent quite a lot of time doing hell runs since about early May and most Hell & Rona runners know me as someone who is "active".

"Problem"
People who find BUR rings either hoard them (collecting 1-2 for every character in their vault) or post them on their Trade Lists and then:
- refuse to trade them, as if the name in their trade list is a status symbol;
- expect unrealistic trades for them (3-5 BURs);
- are more reasonable about trade value but are looking for equally unfindable items.


Having a BUR chest dedicated to BUR rings would be absurd, so I am not going to suggest it because:
- there are too few rings within the pool;
- the market would become flooded in a month or two;
- trade value would absolutely crash;

However, I noted a glimmer of hope on page 3 of the Malbolge Overkill? thread where Funky said (highlighted in Orange by me):

funkyswerve said:

... - but figured we'd wait on that, and add the loot first before increasing difficulty any more.

Funky

So I am hoping now my be an opportune time to increase the drop rate of BUR Immunity Rings slightly.

Respectfully submitted for your consideration,

Trazik

[Raj]

"Problem"
People who find BUR rings either hoard them (collecting 1-2 for every character in their vault) or post them on their Trade Lists and then:
- refuse to trade them, as if the name in their trade list is a status symbol;
- expect unrealistic trades for them (3-5 BURs);
- are more reasonable about trade value but are looking for equally unfindable items.

point 1) : those people are acting childish and dumb
point 2-3) : i fail to see the problem, nobody trade 1v1 UR rings for many other UR items as well

psst, I traded for 90% of the rings I have, it's not impossible, just be prepared for a sacrifice

[Acaos]

It may look like BUR rings have a low drop rate, but every BUR has the same chance to drop. I think it's a case of cognitive bias - everyone remembers it when they get stuck with a Torch of the Unwary, and when they miss out on a Bahamut's.

Acaos

[Tonkers]

But Delg the same can be said about ur rings took me over a year to get half my ur rings and even then i preferred using rares in hells and still do at times, Your lucky to have 2 of many ur rings there in your pic some have trouble finding just one of them or getting them for trades let alone getting a bur ring lol

Anyways last time i did dis i popped about 3 bur rings so like acaos says bur rings have the same expectancy of dropping as any other bur be it in low hell runs or high hell runs though most i have seen on low hell runs like tia , dis and min

[Trazik]

I am aware that the drop frequency is the same as any other BUR (on average ) and that there are plenty of examples where other people have seen lots of them.

However some items are in gross under-supply in the module (another example being Hands of Vecna). Whether or not Hand of Vecna becomes even rarer still once Aboleths are added remains to be seen, of course.

I do not mean to insinuate anything untoward, but doing hell runs with rare rings just dredges up the "going to hell unprepared" discussion again, and IMHO sets a bad example for those who are relatively new to The Hells.

Anyways, I do not want to drag this discussion off topic ...

I have made sacrifices, as Raj suggests; I traded away 2 Bahamut's Ruinations for top gear, but never at a 3:1 ratio. Was I robbed blind? I doubt it, considering I traded with friends, 1 of whom is a DM. At the time I was seeing BUR rings about every 2 or 3 runs and it seems I was mistakenly under the impression that it would continue.

Some time after these trades my loot-split luck took a turn for the worse. But you do not likely want to read my sob story.

[chainlink]

I have most of the BUR resistance rings now and the only way this has happened is by doing an insane amount of Hell runs, getting lucky (on occasion) and also by passing over BUR races and Asmo artifacts when the opportunity occurred.
Its all luck as I rarely trade for anything as I'm crap at trading and would rather be doing a run with mates than haggling over a trade.

[Raj]

However some items are in gross under-supply in the module

There're many people who use a transferable bag of rings like you do, to lessen the lack of rings: that helps making rings more availabe than they are value-wise.
The ''problem'' is that rings are useful for everybody, while other nice items like.. let say, a carapace are useful only to specific builds/classes.
About Hand of Vecna.. that's a consumable, it will always be in demand as long as people make new characters.. much like beakers or succors; when you get to have a bag full of rings you can gear up as many characters as you wish as long as you don't mind xfer whole time ( I mind ), but each time you build a new character you might want to find a appropriate artifact/pandect/beaker/tome/rune of return etc etc...

psst, I have couple str arti for trade, guess what I want, bur rings

[zerragon]

They should be hard to get !, as they make it so you have a MUCH better chance of surviving.
People need to have things to strive after, this also makes it extra rewarding to win a Bur immunity ring in a lootsplit, as its not just another random Bur.
It also took me several months of Hell runs to get a complete set, and half of them came from trading...

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Yes...I can see why it looks like there are less BUR rings out there - because people see Ring and Non Ring, not Ring or Cloak, or Ring or Armor, or Ring or Helm...its Ring vs All Non Rings. And there are a lot of equipment slots that are not rings.

And thats not even factoring in universal usefulness vs build specific vs really pathetic.

[Midnite [UE]]

I do not mean to insinuate anything untoward, but doing hell runs with rare rings just dredges up the "going to hell unprepared" discussion again, and IMHO sets a bad example for those who are relatively new to The Hells.

Using rare rings in hell is not being unprepared.. It all depends on the experience of the player, and the build imo.

As for the ring drop rate.. We had 4 BUR rings (the exact same ones) drop on Cania last night... Most of the runs Ive been on have always had at least 1 BUR ring drop. If they started dropping 3-4 rings on every run, the value of them would drop I think, and besides.. I do hell runs with 1 BUR ring, and then Im constantly swapping out other rings depending on what Im fighting. BUR rings are more a luxury then a requirement, and luxuries are expensive.

Midnite

[cataclysmic]

I have to agree with midnight here, Rare rings or any other rare gear in the right combination is certainly good enough for hell. Of course you have to find rare gear with the right immunes but if you have it there is nothing to stop you going Demi just wearing rare gear. People have done it so its definitely possible.

As Midnight said it is just a matter of experience and build. I don't have one single BUR ring and managed to demi my lash, ok she now wears an Asmo ring 99% of the time but she had to beat Asmo to get it in the first place

[Stormchaser]

cataclysmic said:

I have to agree with midnight here, Rare rings or any other rare gear in the right combination is certainly good enough for hell.

Add pyramid rings to the mix and you can have a nice set of rings to choose from. BUR rings drop rate should stay the way it is IMO.

[FunkySwerve]

midnitelightning said:

[
As for the ring drop rate.. We had 4 BUR rings (the exact same ones) drop on Cania last night... Most of the runs Ive been on have always had at least 1 BUR ring drop. If they started dropping 3-4 rings on every run, the value of them would drop I think, and besides.. I do hell runs with 1 BUR ring, and then Im constantly swapping out other rings depending on what Im fighting. BUR rings are more a luxury then a requirement, and luxuries are expensive.

Midnite

Bah, you beat me to it.

Trazik, you seem to be on to something. Labelling a thread a 'rant' out the outset seems to have a calming effect on people. Chalk it up to perversity. ^^

Funky

[Trazik]

Hurray for diplomacy.

Doesn't seem to have achieved the desired result however.

[mrbadexample]

acaos said:

It may look like BUR rings have a low drop rate, but every BUR has the same chance to drop. I think it's a case of cognitive bias - everyone remembers it when they get stuck with a Torch of the Unwary, and when they miss out on a Bahamut's.
Acaos

This is true Acaos and it causes the perceved idea of BURR rings being harder to find then other burrs. as there are only 11 burr rings according to the HGwiki, 9 of them are actually immunity rings. So say with 100 or so burrs in the loot table hypathetically, you only have 9%-11% chance of those even dropping within the drop rate of burrs themselfs.