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Post by Senaattori on Sept 26, 2007 4:14:25 GMT
How this build end up with 32 Cha? starting Cha is 18 +6 from Great cha and +5 from LLs. end up with 29 Cha. did I miss something?
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Post by DragonChyld on Sept 26, 2007 4:47:44 GMT
you get 10 cha in LL, 1 pnt every 2 levels
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Post by zerragon on Sept 26, 2007 6:16:06 GMT
Having noticed harder dex chekcs in Hells, I recommend using the Dex artifact on this toon. You will then have 40 str, 36 dex, 38 cha as a double demi.
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Post by Senaattori on Sept 26, 2007 11:14:47 GMT
you get 10 cha in LL, 1 pnt every 2 levels then it would be 18+6(great cha)+10=34 not 32
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Post by Yomi on Sept 26, 2007 18:14:25 GMT
Do we yet have a definitive answer on whether Artist raises the SR and stoneskin calculations? By the documentation it does not, but there are lots of people out there quoting developers saying it does. The primary advantage IMO of going pure bard is that you get +15/30 stoneskin and drop SR by 6 points on your song and curse respectively. Splash a Pally level and you save 6 feats but also now get +14/29 stoneskin and drop SR by 5 points. Artist raises SONG level, not CASTER level. But what really happens depends on how it's been implemented. Since reincarnation is coming to a close really soon, it'd be nice to know the answer. If Artist does work, then I think Pally splash would be far more attractive. P.S. A good reason to want 36 base CHA: Tia Harp
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Post by Acaos on Sept 26, 2007 18:46:48 GMT
Do we yet have a definitive answer on whether Artist raises the SR and stoneskin calculations? By the documentation it does not, but there are lots of people out there quoting developers saying it does. The primary advantage IMO of going pure bard is that you get +15/30 stoneskin and drop SR by 6 points on your song and curse respectively. Splash a Pally level and you save 6 feats but also now get +14/29 stoneskin and drop SR by 5 points. Artist raises SONG level, not CASTER level. But what really happens depends on how it's been implemented. Since reincarnation is coming to a close really soon, it'd be nice to know the answer. If Artist does work, then I think Pally splash would be far more attractive. P.S. A good reason to want 36 base CHA: Tia HarpI just went over the code and verified, and I'll make sure the docs reflect it. You only get the +15 DR and the 6 SR drop by having 60 actual bard levels. Acaos
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Post by DragonChyld on Sept 27, 2007 0:48:34 GMT
it actually HURTS me to post this.... But I have to be honest, I think the Tia harp is broken, using it with no problems with my bard, Base CHA of 32.
~ DC
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Post by Acaos on Sept 27, 2007 1:00:02 GMT
it actually HURTS me to post this.... But I have to be honest, I think the Tia harp is broken, using it with no problems with my bard, Base CHA of 32. ~ DC I just checked the code and it should not be. I did, however, add a message letting you know when the harp Empowers your ice storms. Acaos
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Post by DragonChyld on Sept 27, 2007 1:39:22 GMT
<-------------- Stupid, was thinking it was a Req of CHA of 36 to USE the harp, have not tried Ice Storms
~ DC
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Post by Yomi on Sept 27, 2007 1:47:56 GMT
From the descrptions of the Lute and Harp, it would seem like it should work ok without a 36 base CHA, it would just not auto-empower your ice storms. Edit: I see you just posted that. I just got the Tia Harp description on the Wiki yesterday, and I'd venture many people have never even seen it. With a 34 or lower base charisma you will also miss out on the upcoming changes to give useful Shades spells (Greater Shadow Conjuration, Phantasmal Killer, Shades). I'm not sure exactly how useful these will be, but getting access to Cone of Cold, Fireball, Wall of Fire, and Phantasmal Killer seem good in rounding out the abilities. if the shade Ghostly Visage will get the same new 6-round GS effect, getting uses of it in 5th level slots seems handy. I don't see these as an enormous loss, but it's one more thing to think about. If you're big into the Hells experience, there is always the plan to bump your stats 2-4 points via demigod-hood, so having a 34 CHA at level 60 may only be temporary.
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Post by zerragon on Sept 27, 2007 18:54:50 GMT
Updated. Less cha, more dex. Dropped 2 save feats by going for hardened soul, and used them for LL illusion and extend spell.
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Post by zerragon on Sept 28, 2007 6:23:07 GMT
From the descrptions of the Lute and Harp, it would seem like it should work ok without a 36 base CHA, it would just not auto-empower your ice storms. Edit: I see you just posted that. I just got the Tia Harp description on the Wiki yesterday, and I'd venture many people have never even seen it. With a 34 or lower base charisma you will also miss out on the upcoming changes to give useful Shades spells (Greater Shadow Conjuration, Phantasmal Killer, Shades). I'm not sure exactly how useful these will be, but getting access to Cone of Cold, Fireball, Wall of Fire, and Phantasmal Killer seem good in rounding out the abilities. if the shade Ghostly Visage will get the same new 6-round GS effect, getting uses of it in 5th level slots seems handy. I don't see these as an enormous loss, but it's one more thing to think about. If you're big into the Hells experience, there is always the plan to bump your stats 2-4 points via demigod-hood, so having a 34 CHA at level 60 may only be temporary. To go for offensice casting power with bard, youd have to invest in the 4 spell penetration feats and a lot more charisma. Thats another type of Bard build than this, as this one focus more on the core Bard functions and not getting knocked down in hells.
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Post by DragonChyld on Sept 28, 2007 13:23:09 GMT
heh, the bard I reincarnated was a pure CHA bard, and my spells still couldn't do nothing... offensivly the only power I had was the great thunderclap from the horn, and the Horrid from the pipes. and those eat up songs. On top of that, in order to curse you gotta get close to the mobs, and my KD epic didn't last long enough to go a whole run, I found my bard worthless alot of the time cause I was "tripped by the kytons chains", KD by the pit fiend, ran over by the horses, or beat down by advespas. I have yet to play this reincarnation on Phleg, but I can be willing to bet that the Pit Fiend in every spawn will be somewhat less troubling to me now ~ DC
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Post by Farang162 on Sept 28, 2007 18:07:35 GMT
Hey Zerragon, I would love to see that Chaos Gnome update you spoke of as ive recently aquired it and have a very misbuilt lvl 40 pixie bard i'd like to re-incarnate. No pressure or anything hehe, but I'll be reincarnating tomorrow regardless for obvious reasons. I wanna go pure but not sure if i should splash for the saves. Anyway, here's to having the time... Hopeful regards, Trubble
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Post by DragonChyld on Sept 29, 2007 1:30:48 GMT
Asked Zerr, he said it was fine for me to post my take on the EV Chaos Gnome.
Base/ Chaos Gnome Str 14 / 14 Dex 16 / 18 Con 12 / 12 Wis 8 / 8 Int 14 / 14 Cha 14 / 18
All levels to Bard Lvl 1-40, all stat points to str, Max conc, disc, heal, perform, tumble, parry. Put some leftovers in UMD and lore. Dont need much Lore, as Legend lore buff + 60 bard will make it skyhigh anyway.
Pre 20:
Lvl 1: Artist
Great fortitude Iron will Combat Casting SF: Transmutation GSF Transmutation Lightning Reflexes
Epic feats: GSF: Enchantment SF: Necro GSF: Necro ICC Silent spell Lasting Inspiration GSF Illusion
Bard Bonus: All Great Cha
Lvl 40-60, 8 stat points to charisma, 2 Dex Book: Abjuration LL feats: LL Reflex LL Fort LL Will epic nec epic enc epic trans epic Illusion
Chaos gnome of course is not as good as Shard for this build, however, by dropping 1 points of GMW, you pick up another epic. Zerr is free to make any changes, its his build after all, I just modified it for Chaos Gnome.
~ DC
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