Newcomer's bard (38 bard/1 pal/1 monk)

[fragment]

Newcomer's bard

A caster bard is a good character type for a newbie to make. It will be useful for a very long time, does not depend on gear very much, and does not depend on excessive primary ability numbers either. You don't have to know much about enemies or areas as well. The downside is, caster bards are rather painful to play, at least until their caster level 55. Also, you can obviously not solo/explore anything, this is a group character.


Subrace considerations

Human race base is practically a must for the level 1 feat and the 1 skill. Bards *could* get by without the level 1 feat, since their skill list is quite copious and misses nothing important, but for the 1 more skill point it's a no-brainer. The subrace should not have -CHA, -INT, -CON and no vulnerabilities. Small size is, for once, not a problem.

"Fey - Satyr"
- STR -1, DEX +1, WIS -1, CHA +1, +6 perform, free feat: Low-Light Vision, free feat: Spell Focus Enchantment, speaks Sylvan

Humanoid - Yuan-Ti"
- CHA +2, INT +1, DEX +1, WIS-3, STR -1m +5 Spellcraft, sr5 +1/lvl, speaks Draconic, speaks Yuan-ti

The abilities on the Yuan-Ti and the spell resistance look nice, while the Satyr gets a feat. For me, it's a toss-up, I'll chose Satyr because you see so few around.


Build consideration

- Kremlin astrologists suggest that caster bards should have exactly 48 base charisma at level 60.
- Due to the open subrace, nothing fancy can be tried like getting dex to a value where it does matter, or getting spell penetration to make bard spells matter.
- Paladin splash since we can't afford not to, monk splash to slightly increase playability.
- Must have the epics for trans, illusion, enchantment (also for GMWs), necro is optional
- Must have ICC or casting healing circles all the time will get you killed.


Skills

concentration - need to cast all the time (healing circles)
dispipline - everybody needs discipline
heal - makes healing circles better
parry - less painful critical hits
perform - you're a bard
taunt - lower AC of enemies even more
tumble - AC
umd - use GS scrolls (and a few others)

8 skills is a lot, we're going to need int 16 to support that. You can alternatively drop taunt and go with con 16 and int 14.

Also invest 1 point each in disable trap and open lock so that you can open lowbie chests, because of our subrace choice we have a few skillpoints left.


Alignment

Start at neutral good. Become lawful good at level 38.


Abilities

Str 8 (7)
Dex 9 (10)
Con 14
Wis 8 (7)
Int 16
Cha 17 (18)


Level progression

- 38 bard, 1 pally, 1 monk
- all abilities go into CHA

You can build this with or without necromancy. Going with necro will tighten up your equipment choices, you will have to wear two items to give you perform skill.

1 artist, curse song
3 lingering song
6 gsf enchant (gmw your party!)
9 extra music OR spell focus necro
12 combat casting
15 silent spell
18 sf transmutation

21 gsf transmutation
23 *lasting inspiration
24 improved combat casting
26 *great cha 1
27 epic skill focus perform OR greater spell focus necro
29 *great cha 2
30 great cha 3
32 *great cha 4 (gain improved bard song!! )
33 great cha 5
35 *great cha 6
36 great cha 7
38 *great cha 8

39 Paladin toughness (need to be lawful good)
40 Monk

Find and read a book that gets you esf: illusion!

Legendary:

Epic spell focusses for: trans, enchantment
Legendary spell focusses for: enchantment, illu
Blind fight OR epic spell focus: necro
Great Cha 9, 10

Find the epic spells as you gain epic spell focusses!

All saves will end up in the 70s.

EDIT title ...
EDIT debugged, added necro option

[uncanny]

Sorry, I don't play Bards enough to be able to comment on the build.. BUT, I've seen a few of the "newcomer" style builds and I have to say, it helps on two levels:

• New folks that know the class can see just what they need to be concerned about for their favorite type of character
  
• People that have been around but don't know the class can see what sort of normal concerns a proficient player would need to take into consideration.
  

The one thing I like about your build layout above, is you go a bit into -why- you need the skills/feats that you need. A lot of newcomers would not understand off the bat these things. An extra add-on I would suggest is to add a "must have available" spell list, so that newcomers have an idea of what they should look into having available at any one time.

[shaengarne]

fragment said:

Newcomer's bard
...
At level 41, find and read a book that gets you esf: illusion!
...
Legendary:
Epic spell focusses for: illu, trans, enchantment
...

You'll get to chose another LL feat because the book will give you esf: illusion

[Tom Schreib]

you dont need that many Chr feets My bard ruby has 58 chr with out taking one great chr that way I was able to get 7 epic spell in too. I did use a bur race though and was cleaning up the build to post soon.
Tom

[fragment]

ladyemelinne said:

you dont need that many Chr feets My bard ruby has 58 chr with out taking one great chr that way I was able to get 7 epic spell in too. I did use a bur race though and was cleaning up the build to post soon.
Tom

I rather trust my astrologists.

:-P

[fragment]

shaengarne said:

fragment said:

Newcomer's bard
...
At level 41, find and read a book that gets you esf: illusion!
...
Legendary:
Epic spell focusses for: illu, trans, enchantment
...

You'll get to chose another LL feat because the book will give you esf: illusion

Thanks for catching that. Corrected by adding the necro option or blind fight.

[Yomi]

I think the best bards are pure bards (1 more reduction to fort and reflex save on curse, 1 more SR drop on curse, 1 more AB from song, +15 stoneskin vs. +14 which is a big deal -- bigger than I think a lot of people realize, 20% more GV duration, and 5% more conceal), but as always there are compromises, mainly that you have to work hard to get saves up while with Paladin they're super high for free. For new players the Paladin splash is easiest.

When I built mine, 36 base CHA was the target, and I met that. We've all heard rumors of upcoming changes that will encourage higher charisma, but nothing solid yet. I have found that ~20 base STR and DEX have helped my bard stand longer when Hells KD critters are around, though not immune. It's a tradeoff, and if one wants 48 base CHA there's no way to get the extra points for STR and DEX. That's fine, just be aware. I'll also agree that without a fancy subrace it would be exceedingly difficult.

Even with a 36 base CHA, I think even just 10-20 points in taunt would let you taunt a lot of things even in the Hells. Definitely concentration, discipline, heal, parry, perform, tumble, and UMD.

Definitely agree on ICC for healing circles. Legendary Illusion is a must -- it will help you survive via conceal, it will help your displacement buff on tanks, and it will make your Ghostly Visage last longer. Since this build will have both legendary enchantment and epic transmutation, you can do +14 GMW and keen all weapons. Use this on your party members -- it will result in a lot of extra damage on many things and make for very happy tanks.

If you have the HG Enhanced hak, which you ought to get, I think taking Extend instead of Silent is a better deal. With the hak you can extend any spell. You do lose the ability to cast spells when silenced but this is very rare, and IMO the advantage of having extended GV, extended Displacement, extended Expeditious Retreat, and so on is going to enhance your enjoyment of the character a lot more.


Some of my opinions on bard spells:

Important spells: Energy Buffer (6), Ice Storm (6), EV (5), Healing Circle (5), GMW (3), Keen (3), Displacement (3), Clairaudience (3), Clarity (2), Ghostly Visage (2), Expeditious Retreat (1), Mage Armor (1), Balagorns (1).

Some additional spells worth considering: Dirge (6) (without spell penetration it's really iffy), Mind Fog (5) (DC is terribly low though), Greater Dispelling (5) (strips some buffs off enemies), Legend Lore (4) (useful for ID'ing anything even with Hells penalties), Wounding Whispers (3) (for the 20% sonic immunity).

Buff people without conceal (e.g. str tanks and clerics) with displacement. Give out the Clairaudience buff to anyone who maxed Listen (though without Divination it won't be huge). GMW and Keen on tanks. For myself I use Etheral Visage (5), Energy Buffer (4), and Extended Expeditious Retreat (1) (fast movement on a caster bard is very helpful). In Hells if I bank I will also cast Legend Lore (assuming you have it) to add 30 to Lore, allowing me to ID anything even with the penalties.


Now I'm going to indicate some ways you can play. There are other ways to do it (for example Mish plays his bard quite a bit different than mine, but very effectively). If I may rant a little, there are a lot of caster bards out there that don't have a clue how to play their characters. They sing only when they've been begged 5 times, they curse late if ever, and after that they just stand around doing nothing. What a waste of a good character. Bards are not just Possum/song-monkeys.

IMO your base job is to make sure everyone has song and enemies are cursed. Good bards will notice if someone has died or rested and make sure they've got song. Occasionally they'll even ask if anyone needs it. They'll find out who needs buffs and make sure they have it on them through the run. I can't tell you how nice it is to be a str tank in Hells and after death or rest to get song and displacement without having to ask. In the Hells this is really important -- no tank is going to go anywhere close to Asmodeus without bardsong to get their AC out of the gutter. At high levels you'll be able to be spawning things even up through Malbolge in the Hells, getting them cursed, then (using your high level expedition retreat) zipping back and supporting the party. Alternately you let a tank spawn with you behind and then curse them. You'll want to keep looking to make sure things aren't running around uncursed (you really need the enhanced hak to do this effectively). With your ability to use Greater Sanctuary (via scroll), extended Ghostly Visage (10 rounds of GS with no timer), fast movement via Exp Retreat, and ability to use blade scrolls, you make a real good puller.

OK, so you've made sure your party is buffed, and everything has been cursed -- what's next? You could taunt something to lower its AC even more. If you have a Turner and you think your Mind Fog is effective you might use that (you could even send them tells to talk about it). If you're in the Desert, Ssithrak, or Illithids and you're level 50+, try out Balagorns (1) -- at high levels you can KD a lot of things. If things need gusting, maybe you could do that. If someone is stoned, read a stone to flesh scroll. If a black blade would be helpful, pop one up with a scroll. Mindblank or Clarity people as necessary. If needed use a restore pearl on the shifter, BFM, or a tank. If someone dies, rez and re-song them. Check out the party health using the icons -- you will eventually have a LOT of healing circles and you have maxed heal. Just standing near people for the next 10 rounds after casting it is going to give them +40 or more regen, plus you can do another HC to hit everyone nearby with up to 600+hp of healing. I've found that staying up near the tanks and giving them this healing helps the party quite a bit. You can always use GV if you want to stop things from hitting you if you're just doing healing circles. I'm not personally into using ice storm a lot, but don't forget that you have it available. If things start getting too hectic, hit the hotkey you have setup for extended Ghostly Visage -- you now have a full minute that things aren't going to hit you even if you're KD'd. You can rez, sing, buff, cast healing circles all without worrying about what monsters you're standing next to. Don't over-rely on it but it's there.

As for epics, you have Possums which is one of the top epics in all of HG. Make sure everyone's back from rest and use it. Sometimes if we've had a bad random and lots of people died/used it, I may rest a bit early to get everyone fresh again. People use UUU (the transmutation epic) differently. In LL areas it's often used as a quick infusion of 1000hp. For the Hells this is, in my opinion, a misuse (e.g. the bard that always fires it off as part of buffing). For the first 3 levels of the Hells (Avernus, Dis, Minauros) you ought to use it any time there is a Pit Fiend or Malebranche. With random spawns there's a chance at any time you could get one, and having that quick UUU to keep people from being knocked down can cut down stress from that random immensely. For Phleg and lower it's really going to take some thought and party discussion to figure out when to use it. IMO you want to use it if the KD critters are seriously all over the casters, or if you get a mixed spawn (Pit Fiend and Malebranche at the same time).

[atomicsomething]

Issue with this build is it's taking a full CHA road, but without spell penetration the only benefit is the duration of two epic spells.
Not worth it.

[tyris]

Thanks, this thread has helped greatly.