Hell Lycan Assassin DEX [1Rog, 9Ran, 30Assassin]

[ZeroGravitySE]

Title:: Hell Lycan Assassin DEX Based
Nickname:: Moo-Moo Cow's Arch Enemy
Race:: Halfling - Lycan(UR)
Alignment:: Chaotic Evil
Level Progression[/u] - 1Rogue, 8Ranger, 10Assassin, 1Ranger, 20Assassin

Background:: Legend tells of a ranger who was captured by a near kingdom and forced into slavery. One night in prison camp a terrible shriek came from the forest. Multiple guards where killed and eaten alive, the entire camp was destroyed; the survivors dragged to the dark forest. The confused ranger woke up to his/her new form. His/Hers brothers and sisters welcomed him/her with open arms. He/She then learned the ways of the Assassin.

Description:: Assassin has always caught my eye when I first saw one played down in the drow city. I was fighter at the time and kinda ticked off about learning Devastating Critical was removed. So this is my first Assassin build ever, I designed it for Hells. I haven't been there but, 70% concealment seems like its enough to hold me down while I kill things one at a time. There is more to this build but I just really like the idea of killing in one hit.

More Info on Assassin: highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=info&action=display&n=1&thread=6669&page=1#1129908560

Assassin:

-Feat Conversion: Characters with at least 14 levels of assassin may exchange Epic Reflexes feats for Epic Great Strength feats, by using the PC scry. A character with more than 13 levels of assassin can no longer delevel using the town priest.
-Can speak Assassin's Cant. You can type !listlanguages to see what languages your character knows, and to get instructions on using those languages. Some races and subraces also get racial languages. See the Subraces board for information on racial languages.
-At level 11, the assassin's Invisibility spell is replaced with Poison Weapon, which adds acid damage to each hit. See book in the Item Shop for details.
-At levels 11 and up, the assassin's Improved Invisibility spell grants increasing % concealment. Assassins get 1 extra use of their Improved Invisibility per day for every 10 assassin levels past 10 (including legendary levels if the control class is assassin), for a maximum of 5 total uses at 50 levels. See the book in the Item Shop for details.
-At 20 levels of assassin, an assassin with a total strength or dexterity of 42 (base plus up to +12 from items) can acquire a scabbard that lets them 'hone' weapons, delivering potentially deadly criticals. See the book in the Item Shop for details.

To qualify as an assassin, a character must fulfill all of the following criteria:
Alignment: Any evil
Skills: Hide 8 ranks, Move silently 8 ranks

My Pick Sub-Races
------------------------------
"Lycan" (secret UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement (changes Appearance)
DEX +4, CON +2, CHA -2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Improved Initiative, 25% vulnerble piercing, regenerates 4hp/round, increased base movement rate - fast

MUST TAKE - Skills (Descriptions)::
------------------------------
Discipline - (Max This, Highest CC lvl is 31)
Parry - (Max This, Highest CC lvl is 31)
Tumble - (Max This)
Hide - (Max This)
Use Magical Device - (Max This)
Search (Max This)

STATS::
------------------------------
Start:: Halfling/Lycan/Final Stats
STR: 08 - 08
DEX: 20 - 24
CON: 14 - 16
WIS: 08 - 08
INT: 14 - 14
CHA: 08 - 06


Weapon Info - This build is designed for Martial Medium Weapons!
------------------------------
Build is Designed For Dual Rapiers

Rapier Weapon properties
Weight (lb): 3
Cost (gp): 20
Damage: 1d6
Critical: 18-20/x2
Damage type: Piercing
Size: Medium

PRE-EPIC FEATS
------------------------------
Skills lvl(1-20):: Discipline, Search, Hide, Move Silently(8@lvl05), Parry(23@lvl20)
Free Lycan Feats:: Dodge

01: Rogue(01):: Toughness
02: Ranger(01):: (Free: Dual-Wield), Favored Enemy: Undead
03: Ranger(02):: Weapon Finese
04: Ranger(03)::
05: Ranger(04):: (Skills: +8Hide, +8MoveSilently)
06: Ranger(05):: Weapon Focus (Rapier), Favored Enemy: Aberrations
07: Ranger(06)::
08: Ranger(07)::
09: Ranger(08):: Improved Critical: (Rapier)
10: Assassin(01)::
11: Assassin(02)::
12: Assassin(03):: Great Fortitude
13: Assassin(04)::
14: Assassin(05)::
15: Assassin(06):: Iron Will
16: Assassin(07)::
17: Assassin(08)::
18: Assassin(09):: Blind-Fight
19: Assassin(10)::
20: Ranger(09):: (Free: Improved Two-Weapon Fighting), (Skills: Discipline:23, Hide:23, Search:23, Parry:23)

EPIC FEATS
------------------------------
Skills lvl(21-40): Search(Max), Hide(Max), Tumble(Max), UMD(Max), Extra: Parry, Discipline

21: Assassin(11):: Epic Weapon Focus (Rapier)
22: Assassin(12)::
23: Assassin(13)::
24: Assassin(14):: Epic Will, Great Dex I
25: Assassin(15)::
26: Assassin(16)::
27: Assassin(17):: Great Dex II
28: Assassin(18):: Great Dex III
29: Assassin(19)::
30: Assassin(20):: Great Dex IV
31: Assassin(21)::
32: Assassin(22):: Great Dex V
33: Assassin(23):: Epic Prowess
34: Assassin(24)::
35: Assassin(25)::
36: Assassin(26):: ESF: Discipline, Great Dex VI
37: Assassin(27)::
38: Assassin(28)::
39: Assassin(29):: Great Dex VII
40: Assassin(30):: Great Dex VIII (Dex = 42, can now hone weapons)

LL FEATS
------------------------------
41: Assassin(30)::
42: Assassin(31):: Great Dex IX
43: Assassin(32)::
44: Assassin(33)::
45: Assassin(34):: Great Dex X
46: Assassin(35)::
47: Assassin(36)::
48: Assassin(37):: LL Weapon Focus (Rapier)
49: Assassin(38)::
50: Assassin(39)::
51: Assassin(40):: LL Willpower
52: Assassin(41)::
53: Assassin(42)::
54: Assassin(43):: LL Fortitude
55: Assassin(44)::
56: Assassin(45)::
57: Assassin(46):: Armor Skin
58: Assassin(47)::
59: Assassin(48)::
60: Assassin(49):: ESF: Parry (10skill=5% resistance to critical)

MAX Lycan DEX Calculations::
-----------------------------
24(base) +5(Pre-Epic) +5(Epic) +10(LL) +10(GreatDEX) = 54 + 12 = 66Dex

MAX Lycan SAVES Calculations::
-----------------------------
Fort: +10[Pre-Epic] +09[MaxCON] +09[GreatFort+LLFeat] +10[Epic] +01[Halfling Luck] +05[LL] +20[ITEMS] = 64
Refe: +10[Pre-Epic] +28[MaxDEX] +01[Halfling Luck] +10[Epic] +05[LL] +20[ITEMS] = 74
Will: +06[Pre-Epic] +05[MaxWIS] +09[IronWil+LLFeat] +10[Epic] +04[EpicWill] +01[Halfling Luck] +05[LL] +20[ITEMS] = 60

Fortitude: 64, Reflex: 74, Will: 60



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Build Version: 1.03
Date Started: August 09, 2007
Other/Old Versions: 1.00, 1.01, 1.02
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

-ZEROGRAVITYSE-



******
This build was designed on the following guidelines
- Aim For 50 Levels of Assassin (70% Concealment 5Uses/Day, Very Nice!)
- Great Dex(was STR) 10 is a must (Want Dev Critical)
- LL LOH, LL Fortitude, LL Willpower, Epic Will (Best Saves Possible)
- Light Armor + Dual Scimitars (Light Armor For Ranger Feats, and Dual Scimitars for best Crit Range)
- Highest CON + Toughness (Always a goal)
- All Two Weapon Feats so I never have to worry about it on armor/items (Can be annoying to switch items around all the time)
- Don't get ranger third level spells until 11, so 13 wis would be a waste (Total waste to aim for ranger spells in my eyes.)

******
Version 1.00
- I think I've hit everything on the mark here. I overlooked the build several times and can't seem to think of any improvements.

******
Version 1.01
- Removed Cleave, Great Cleave, Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical, and REPLACED them with Lightning Reflexes, Epic Prowess, Armor Skin, Epic Will.
- Took LL Reflexes @ lvl60

******
Version 1.02
- Changed to Dexer
- Added in Improved Expertise vs LL Reflexes

******
Version 1.03
- Changed lvl progression from (1fighter, 9ranger, 30assassin) to (1rogue, 8ranger, 10assassin, 1ranger, 20assassin)
- Removed Luck of Heroes, LL Luck of Heroes, Expertise, and Improve Expertise to free up feats
- Changed Race from Human to Halfling
- Primary Weapon is now Rapier
- Redid all calculations & saves



******************************************************
**ZeroGravitySE's Build History & Information**
******************************************************

Current "Hell" Builds
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hell Lycan Assassin DEX Based [1Rogue, 9Ranger, 30Assassin]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1186684011

Hell Treant Barbarian [29Barbarian, 10RDD, 1Bard]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1186620320

STR Based Ranger Build Mino Only [29R/4F/7WM]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1186466254

Fallen Angel Rogue-Druid [37Druid/1Paladin/2Rogue]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1145468782

HG Epic Dodge Fighter Mino/Liz [31Fight/2Rog/7WM]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1184471705


Only For Fun Builds (Not For Hell)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sammy Svirneblin [38Druid/1Monk/1Rogue]
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1184649667


Expired Builds/Under Construction
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The HG Cleric Caster: 38Cleric, 1Fighter, 1Monk
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1149387039

The HG Wizard Caster: 40 Wizard *Updated*
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1148705348

Evil Red Dragon: 1Bard, 9Fighter, 30RDD
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1148346858

Evil Red Dragon II: 7Bard, 7WM, 24RDD
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1148496753

Evil Red Dragon III: 2Bard, 18Rogue, 20RDD
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1149876620

Pixie Monk: 20Monk, 13COT, 7WM
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1150020629

The Lonely Bard: 10ShadowDancer, 30Bard
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1146278432

Dragon Angel: 31Druid, 6DD, 3Monk
Link - highergroundpoa.proboards3.com/index.cgi?board=builds&action=display&n=1&thread=1148320136

[ZeroGravitySE]

I must of overlooked it but I couldn't find out if I really needed the DC feat or not?

Fixed it..

[sabregirl]

I really have no idea why you're using lycan as a STR based anything, much less an assassin where your strength is your DC and an assassin's DC is your purpose in life. Lycan's only chance to survive with the piercing weakness is to just plain not get hit. A str assassin without RDD levels or crit immunity is pretty much asking to die. Lycan would made a very nice DEX assassin with excellent defense and much easier to use OL skill, not to mention more usable AB, assasin AB is a little on the touchy side now anyway. I have no idea why you're trying to use this race off-type, I don't see a point in it.

Maybe you're not realizing that you simply "get" assassin devastating critical, you aren't required to take the feats normally required for it.

-At level 20, an assassin with a total strength or dexterity of 42 (base plus up to +12 from items) can acquire a scabbard that lets them 'hone' weapons, from someone or something . . . . . .
For characters with 28 or more assassin levels, the honed weapon delivers devastating criticals, inflicting added damage and potentially killing the target instantly.

Also you should take a level of some class with disc as a class skill at lvl 20, you need to get at least 20 skill points so it's easier to take ESF discipline and you don't have to waste as many points cross class.

-S

[ladyq]

I agree with sabregirl..

I don't really see the point of 9 ranger in this instance..if you're using plate/medium armor the twf feats are lost. Going more fighter you can maximize your parry with epic focii and have feats left over for improved expertise and the twf feats if you plan to duel weld scimitars or something..

My str based assassin is similar to Chainlinks grummish and has had no real problems with criticals, so it is possible to create other variations..the key is maximizing the assassin conceal by going 30 pre LL levels and maximizing your tumble ability..I hit close to 130ac with girdling which is nice lol

[ZeroGravitySE]

sabregirl said:

I really have no idea why you're using lycan as a STR based anything,

Lycan has DEX and CON, both which the assassin will use. So I might as well design the character for that taking advantage of better AC and HP.

much less an assassin where your strength is your DC and an assassin's DC is your purpose in life.

56STR isn't enough? Thats pretty high to me?

Lycan's only chance to survive with the piercing weakness is to just plain not get hit.

70% Concealment, Decent Dex Base, Light Armor, & Piercing Resistant Gear that I know has to be somewhere.

A str assassin without RDD levels or crit immunity is pretty much asking to die. Lycan would made a very nice DEX assassin with excellent defense and much easier to use OL skill, not to mention more usable AB, assasin AB is a little on the touchy side now anyway. I have no idea why you're trying to use this race off-type, I don't see a point in it.

I thought concealment is crit immunity? Isn't that how Wizards survive with 90% concealment? I really don't like going DEX because it doesn't add to the DMG total. Plus STR Assassin is getting bonuses on Discipline. I'm using a "off-race" because it does work? I really don't think the AB will be that bad.

Maybe you're not realizing that you simply "get" assassin devastating critical, you aren't required to take the feats normally required for it.

-At level 20, an assassin with a total strength or dexterity of 42 (base plus up to +12 from items) can acquire a scabbard that lets them 'hone' weapons, from someone or something . . . . . .
For characters with 28 or more assassin levels, the honed weapon delivers devastating criticals, inflicting added damage and potentially killing the target instantly.

It doesn't really say if you need to take the skill or not so I was confused, but it was a very easy fix.

Also you should take a level of some class with disc as a class skill at lvl 20, you need to get at least 20 skill points so it's easier to take ESF discipline and you don't have to waste as many points cross class.

30Discipline, +23 STR, +50 Items +10ESF(If you want) = 113? 103 without esf? Is it that bad? I don't really know... because I haven't been to hell to read the numbers yet.

This is Moo-Moo Cow's Arch Enemy!!!!!! He's one mean mother!!! lol

[ZeroGravitySE]

ladyq said:

I agree with sabregirl..

I don't really see the point of 9 ranger in this instance..if you're using plate/medium armor the twf feats are lost. Going more fighter you can maximize your parry with epic focii and have feats left over for improved expertise and the twf feats if you plan to duel weld scimitars or something..

9 Ranger to dual weild scimitars, and have those 3 feats for free. On top of all that It gives me Highest AB for 9 levels. This build would not be using medium armor or heavy armor.

I could drop some save feats and get expertise and improved expertise. That would help on the AC side when im dueling with 70% concealment.

[ladyq]

i think you're risking suicide by making a str based without the physical immunities from medium or heavy armor..conceal helps yes, but when you get hit (which you will) you will feel it a lot more

I think in this instance imp. expertise you would want for a dex based build..with str build (without maximizing strength 62+) you may have trouble hitting things..at least without an instruments epic avail.. For me without a gmw of at least +5 (I used scrolls whenever mage wasn't avail) I could not hit an elephant standing an inch from my morningstar

It all boils down to how you play or what you want your build to achieve..when i build my str based one eyed, the main priority was maximizing the dev. DC to kill things as fast as possible before they kill me or my party. in your case with 56 str you are 3 to 4 dc less, which may catch up to you later when a pure bard isn't available. Meaning you will suffer more dmg so long as you don't dev things as much, and the AB you miss might lead you to miss more as well

[ZeroGravitySE]

ladyq said:

i think you're risking suicide by making a str based without the physical immunities from medium or heavy armor..conceal helps yes, but when you get hit (which you will) you will feel it a lot more

I think in this instance imp. expertise you would want for a dex based build..with str build (without maximizing strength 62+) you may have trouble hitting things..at least without an instruments epic avail.. For me without a gmw of at least +5 (I used scrolls whenever mage wasn't avail) I could not hit an elephant standing an inch from my morningstar

It all boils down to how you play or what you want your build to achieve..when i build my str based one eyed, the main priority was maximizing the dev. DC to kill things as fast as possible before they kill me or my party. in your case with 56 str you are 3 to 4 dc less, which may catch up to you later when a pure bard isn't available

Your right 3-4 DC is about the only thing this build lacks, But its also pure 30 assassin levels. If the heat is on, I'll be forced to wear a tower shield and lose my off hand attacks?

I didn't aim for Max DC on dev crits because I really don't see why 3-4 DC would effect the entire build. I might kill on average a couple less monsters then someone with 3-4 dc. Unless I see the numbers I really don't believe 3-4 DC will effect this build that much. I believe its a little more effective, but I don't believe that its needed.

[sabregirl]

56 strength is NOT enough, considering a lot of STR assassins have much higher strength, up to 76 on some builds. 56 strength will get you a dev DC of 51 at lvl 60, which is really terrible, you don't be deving much of anything. A dex version using lycan would get something like 56 -57 DC.

Wearing robes on a str assassin is also crazy and unnecessary. If you want to dual on an assassin you should go dex and put on a monk level. You're not going to get much offhand AC from 9 ranger levels. Dualing STR build is a bit questionable and best done by a ranger, but the fact you're using a dex race on something that requires high strength to be effective really kills the idea.

Do you have something against dexers or something? 3-4 DC is HUGE, ask pretty well anyone and in any case it's more than 3-4 it's more like 5-6.

-S

[ZeroGravitySE]

That was my first question when I designed this build. Go STR or DEX. I picked STR to see if it could work. I posted this build because I wanted to see if I could make STR work. Its not a finalized build.

The DC is forcing me to take this to DEX. I can't allow 5+ DC difference. Besides most my skills make out more because of DEX, which leads me back to discipline and the only way to make it up would be to take a ESF Disc, I wish there was a LL Disc. I can't take any levels at 39 because you have to have 11 levels of a different class other then assassin to do that. Which would ruin the build in my eyes because of the bonuses you get at 50Assassin.

So Dex'er it is.

[ZeroGravitySE]

Changed To Dexer

[borges]

You can't finesse scimitars. You need rapier (not small sized, so worse dualing) or kukri (requires exotic proficiency) to get the 18-20 crit range on a finesseable weapon.

[sabregirl]

I think you're missing what I'm saying about taking a ranger level at lvl 20 - presumably you can qualify for assassin before lvl 20 so you start taking assassin levels early then take a ranger level at 20. I personally think expertise and improved expertise are a waste as they are incredibly easy to shut off. I especially would NOT trade improved expertise for epic skill focus discipline, when you take into account hells penalties discipline becomes a problem even on dexers with discipline as a class skill.

Understand that without a rogue level you won't be able to disable many traps so it really isn't worth investing points in IMO. These points are probably better spent on a parry dump - on the last ranger level.

You might want to consider ditching the fighter level and going with halfling based lycan rather than human. This would give you another point of DC, another point of AC and AB as well as +1 to all saves. I think you could afford the loss of feats if you ditched expertise and improved expertise the loss of skills probably wouldn't be a big deal either. And since Lycan changes appearance you'll be medium sized anyway.

edit- As to weapons I'd recommend rapiers to save you a feat on exotic.

-S

[ZeroGravitySE]

sabregirl said:

I think you're missing what I'm saying about taking a ranger level at lvl 20 - presumably you can qualify for assassin before lvl 20 so you start taking assassin levels early then take a ranger level at 20. I personally think expertise and improved expertise are a waste as they are incredibly easy to shut off. I especially would NOT trade improved expertise for epic skill focus discipline, when you take into account hells penalties discipline becomes a problem even on dexers with discipline as a class skill.

Understand that without a rogue level you won't be able to disable many traps so it really isn't worth investing points in IMO. These points are probably better spent on a parry dump - on the last ranger level.

You might want to consider ditching the fighter level and going with halfling based lycan rather than human. This would give you another point of DC, another point of AC and AB as well as +1 to all saves. I think you could afford the loss of feats if you ditched expertise and improved expertise the loss of skills probably wouldn't be a big deal either. And since Lycan changes appearance you'll be medium sized anyway.

edit- As to weapons I'd recommend rapiers to save you a feat on exotic.

-S

I was considering some of the same changes when I first built the build but I designed it around thinking STR, but now that I know 56STR isn't the way to go, that changes the build. Since I'm wearing light armor I might as well go DEX. That I did change. I do want to take away the extra feat, and just go with Rogue to start? I guess dualing with medium weapons isn't as effective so I'll have to find a way to squeeze in the exotic weaponry, because rapiers are just to big for a small race? It didn't say that lycan changes the size?

So I'll take Halfling since its more dex, and the saves thing is a big turn on. Maybe just take away LL LOH then and get some more feats in there by mixing it around a bit. I'll look at it tomorrow at work. Right now this build isn't finalized in my eyes, and I appreciate the help with a class I'm still new at, specially on HG.

Hide and Move Silent are a waste right? Reason why I didn't build a Dexer to start with is because I don't ever play one. Its my least favorite type of build.

Also level progression is then
1rogue, 8ranger, 10assassin, 1ranger, 20assassin?
That should work right? And give me open lock and disable trap, something none of my characters have and wish they did. I'm so confused on this, because I kept hearing that rogue CC was the only class that can open the highest DC chest. But then I also read that other classes can do it as long as you splash a rogue level in there. If that is so, why doesn't everyone splash rogue? I'm total newb at rogue, assassin, bard, and other dexer's a like. Doesn't mean I don't understand the class, but not in FINE detail.

[sabregirl]

Number one I said right in the post you quoted above, that lycan changes appearance and therefore you'll be medium sized . . . . don't believe that? I have a Lycan rogue halfling death focused in rapiers to prove it to you . . . .

Ahem as to the Rogue and chest opening deal. A splash rogue generally can't open all of the chests or disarm all of the traps in the game. Assassin is a special case in that happens to get open lock, search and disarm trap as class skills. The basic nwn rules state "you must be a rogue to disarm traps over DC 30". This means you need at least one rogue level to disarm a trap over that DC - no matter how high your disarm trap skill, without a rogue level you will always fail a disarm check. You can get around this on low level traps by using recover instead of disarm but this boosts the DC considerably.

When you start talking about traps in the hells, recover would push the DC beyond possibility of success. Indeed to find and disarm a trap in the hells you generally need epic skill focuses in both search and disarm trap. Focus in open lock is unnecessary as a dexer since open lock is dex based and your dex modifier will be added to your OL skill (a STR assassin or rogue would probably need the focus). Even if you have no rogue levels you can open just about any lock assuming you have the right picks - some of the lowest level chests require BUR picks. Overall imo it's harder to make an assassin lockpicker than a rogue picker simply because rogue gets a lot more skill points. I have done it, with a bur race and he is capable of opening every hells chest. However it was so feat tight he's now married to his lolth ring . . . .

Hide is a skill under consideration for upgrade so you may need to budget points for it. And trust me dex assassin is fun, to me it's much more fun to . . . not get hit.

-S