Greyhawk - 26 Sorcerer/14 Blackguard - Bane Knight

[bort]

About:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bigby_%28Greyhawk%29

funkyswerve said:

A wiz with the LSF (evocation) has a decent chance to kd a Cornie - which is otherwise ungraspable.

This build is designed as a specialist caster build for the hells; which specializes in Bigby spells.
Like a Pale Master, the build casts spells whilst wearing Heavy Armor and a Shield.
AC is lower than that of a PM and the build has no crit immunity, but damage resist/immunity buffs should help make up for that; and being immune to PF knockdown is a nice bonus too...

Untested beyond the test chamber; all input welcome.
Thanks
-Bort

Revisions coming soon...

---

Race: Human
Subrace: Maelephant

"Maelephant" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement (Changes Appearance) STR +4, CON +6, free feat: Heavy Armor Proficiency, free feat: Toughness, free feat: Epic Skill Focus - Intimidate, free feat: Epic Skill Focus - Taunt, increases character size to large, speaks Infernal

Stats (and after subrace mods):
str 14 (18)
dex 8
con 14 (20)
wis 14 (for Blackguard death ward - gives crit immunity)
int 10
cha 16

Level Progression:
12 sorcerer(+5 hide dump and correct bab)/11 blackguard/1 sorcerer/2 blackguard/13 sorcerer/1 blackguard

Skills:
5 Hide (cross-class) by level 12
Concentration
43 Discipline by level 40 (BG levels only)
Tumble (15 by level 40, crossclass to 30 by level 60 - or as close as possible)

Feats:
1. Power Attack, Cleave
3. Spell Focus Evocation
6. Greater Spell Focus Evocation
9. Spell Penetration
12. Greater Spell Penetration
15. Combat Casting
18. Lightning Reflexes
21. Still Spell
24. Great Charisma 1
25: *** Bane Knight status!
26. (bonus BG feat) Improved Combat Casting
27. Great Charisma 2
30. Great Charisma 3
33. Extend Spell
36. Great Strength 1,
(bonus Sorc feat) Epic Spell Focus Evocation
39. Great Strength 2,
(bonus Sorc feat) Epic Spell Penetration

42. Legednary Spell Penetration
45. Legendary Spell Focus Evocation
48. Legendary Reflexes
51. Great Strength 3
54. Great Strength 4
57. Great Strength 5
60. Great Strength 6

Epic spells:
Transmutation (from book, epic wall)
Evocation (try it on a hamatula )

Stats at 60 naked (and geared):
str 44 (56)
dex 8 (20)
con 20 (32)
int 10
wis 14 (26)
cha 19

Spells (spells marked with a * are changeable, others are not imo):
9: Crushing hand, Energy Drain, Time Stop
8: Premonition, GS, Clenched Fist
7: Grasping Hand, Shadow Shield, Spell Mantle
6: Forceful Hand, Tensers, Stone to Flesh
5: Energy Buffer, Acid Sheath, Interposting Hand, Mind Fog(*)
4: Elemental Shield, Bestow Curse, Wall of Fire, Confusion(*)
3: Gmw, Keen, Gust of Wind, Displacement
2: Iron Horn, Bull's STR(*), Endurance(*), Flame Weapon, Death Armor
1: Endure Elements, Mage Armor, Shield, Expeditious Retreat(*), Grease(*)

Saves:
66, 65, 63

[bort]

funkyswerve said:

SPELLS

* Balagarn's Iron Horn
Add +5 strength per trans focus

* Bigby's Forceful Hand
Instead of +14/Str modifier, double caster's Str score, add +10 per Evo
focus, minimum of 38 Str, max of 110 Str

* Mind Fog
Ignore mind immunity at CL 41
Improve DC by +1/+2/+3 for GSF/ESF/LSF Enchantment

* Minor Globe of Invulnerability
Grant immunity to 4th level spells at CL 45 and 5th level spells at CL 55

Bane Knight Quasiclass
======================
Requirements: Must have 12 levels of Sorcerer, 12 levels of Blackguard, and the Still Spell feat before level 26.

Benefits:
-On achieving Bane Knight status at level 24 or 25, the character is automatically given the 3 Epic Auto Still Spell feats for free.
-Spell DCs for ceratin spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10)
-Caster levels for those same spells are equal to Sorcerer level + Blackguard level.
-All other spells follow standard rules for casterlevel and dc, relying on Sorcerer levels only and using CHA instead of STR to calculate DC.

Spells affected by Blackguard level and STR modifier:
-----
1
-Grease
-Mage Armor
-Shield
-True Strike
-Protection vs. Alignment

2
-Balagorn's Iron Horn
-Bull's Strength
-Eagle's Splendor
-Endurance
-Flame Weapon
-Death Armor

3
-Greater Magic Weapon
-Keen
-Magic Circle vs. Alignment
-Vampiric Touch

4
-Bestow Curse
-Confusion
-Elemental Shield
-Minor Globe of Invulnerability
-Stoneskin
-Phantasmal Killer

5
-Bigby's Interposing Hand
-Dismissal
-Energy Buffer
-Acid Sheath
-Mind Fog

6
-Bigby's Forceful Hand
-Greater Stoneskin
-Tenser's Transfromation

7
-Banishment
-Bigby's Grasping Hand
-Power Word Stun
-Protection from Spells
-Spell Mantle
-Shadow Shield

8
-Bigby's Clenched Fist
-Mass Blindness/Deafness

9
-Energy Drain
-Bigby's Crushing Hand
-Weird
-----

-Bane Knights get a special version of the Premonition spell. They are able to cast it while wearing armor heavier than cloth and/or while using a shield, unlike Sorcerers.

[Raj]

I think the lvl 6 bigby dc is balanced for classic mages with the right spell focii and baneknights w/o any focus at all, being:

* Bigby's Forceful Hand
Instead of +14/Str modifier, double caster's Str score, add +10 per Evo
focus, minimum of 38 Str, max of 110 Str

you have 56 str, double it and it's already over the cap, no need for evo feats ( luckly, because bk are already low on feats and bigbies are their main spells )

then, for the other spells you have a problem:

-Spell DCs for certain spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10)

so, while a caster usually has 64-68 in his casting stat ( +27/29 DC ), you have a base 56 ( +23) x 9/10 = 20,7, i think rounded down so +20, a noticeable loss in dc for all other spells and it's a bit low for the grapple roll on lvl 7-9 bigbies too

I'd take more grt str feats, and think mael isn't the right race for it: a bit sad but if you want to cast/smite on a bk build you should aim for hound archon

[bort]

Thanks Raj - I was wondering about the Evo focus.
I posted a question about Bigby's and Bane Knights in the General Build Forum, but no-one answered it, even after a bump, so I deleted it.
Thought I'd throw the build out there anyway.

If you had a classic caster with LSF Evo, you'd have 8 STR + 10 for each focus = 56 strength right?
That seems pretty wimpy compared to a possible 110.. o0

Or maybe it's just the way it's worded and it'd be 56 x 2 = 112 (much better).

Bah, really wanted to make a bigby specialist


Re. Mael - yeah i know - you think i'm not sick of playing elephants?
My next best options were Dragonblooded or Prismatic, neither of which comes close.

[bort]

therajah said:

then, for the other spells you have a problem:

-Spell DCs for certain spells (those listed below) are equal to 10 + spell level + (STR modifierx9/10)

so, while a caster usually has 64-68 in his casting stat ( +27/29 DC ), you have a base 56 ( +23) x 9/10 = 20.7, i think rounded down so +20, a noticeable loss in dc for all other spells and it's a bit low for the grapple roll on lvl 7-9 bigbies too

Funky or Acaos, could you please confirm if STR modifierx9/10 applies to bigby spells?
Thanks,
Bort

[Raj]

actually I was pointing at your 56 str, that's always lower than a caster ability score so you'll never be a better bigbizer; not sure it gets the x9/10 because bigby check isn't a real DC but no biggie, I can bigby things in hell with a 20 int theurge if I have to do. DC matters for some other spells you chosed, like level drain and bestow curse and those will never land :S

[atomicsomething]

bort said:

Like a Pale Master, the build has access to crit immunity, and casts spells whilst wearing Heavy Armor and a Shield.

You need to have Blackguard as control class to get crit immunity.

When cast by a character with Blackguard as control class on himself, if the caster has at least 40 base Strength and already possesses immunity to death magic, he will receive immunity to critical hits for 1 round per casterlevel (note that this duration will decrease once blackguard spell slot gear is in-game)

[ladyq]

A possibly could be to eliminate having wall and take a evo book, and take the ll feat to improve your bigby capabilities and dump the additional feats back into more gr str, or maybe imp. expertise(13int.yuck( (so your AC may potentially max out at mid 130s? with strongheart). I'm thinking of ideas to reincarnate my bk (an exact duplicate of Azreal's but with an exotic weap) and am hitting a brick wall as far as bringing it down into the hells goes..am too very interested in the bigby check (x9/10?), that will be a huge part of any bk build

[FunkySwerve]

bort said:

therajah said:

then, for the other spells you have a problem:



so, while a caster usually has 64-68 in his casting stat ( +27/29 DC ), you have a base 56 ( +23) x 9/10 = 20.7, i think rounded down so +20, a noticeable loss in dc for all other spells and it's a bit low for the grapple roll on lvl 7-9 bigbies too

Funky or Acaos, could you please confirm if STR modifierx9/10 applies to bigby spells?
Thanks,
Bort

No, it doesn't. Bigby's has no dc, but grapple checks. Casters use their casting ability in that check, which for BK is STR. Full, not partial.
Funky

[bort]

funkyswerve said:

Bigby's has no dc, but grapple checks. Casters use their casting ability in that check, which for BK is STR. Full, not partial.
Funky

THANKS!

atomicsomething said:

You need to have Blackguard as control class to get crit immunity.

In which case 14 wisdom seems unnecessary.
More starting stat points, woot!

There may be life in this idea yet.

ladyq said:

A possibly could be to eliminate having wall and take a evo book, and take the ll feat to improve your bigby capabilities and dump the additional feats back into more gr str, or maybe imp. expertise(13int.yuck( (so your AC may potentially max out at mid 130s? with strongheart). I'm thinking of ideas to reincarnate my bk (an exact duplicate of Azreal's but with an exotic weap) and am hitting a brick wall as far as bringing it down into the hells goes..am too very interested in the bigby check (x9/10?), that will be a huge part of any bk build

Seems Evocation focus isn't needed for a high STR caster, so I'll drop that from the build when I next revise it.
Definately going to max out STR on the next version and see how else I can improve it.