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Post by Raj on Jul 17, 2007 11:46:18 GMT
no immutable force is what makes it obsolete
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 17, 2007 17:12:27 GMT
no immutable force is what makes it obsolete You can easily take out w/e spell school you want to replace it with evocation. When I played last year the immutable force was nice to have but never a "must." There where many times I ran around with that skill and it was used only in emergencies. Because of that, I want the conceal epic over it that last a longer time. At least state your argument of the reason why it would be so important? Obviously you favor that epic.
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Post by sabregirl on Jul 17, 2007 17:43:37 GMT
I would NOT sacrifice an evocation focus for conjuration . . . period. Yes bombards are your best spell but conjuration focus affects essentially that spell and that spell alone, plus the epic is lackluster at best. The invulnerability epic is part of the standard druid set, incredibly powerful and generally expected for druids to have, plus evocation focus also affects nearly every other damage spell in your repertoire. Invuln is a save your party from wiping epic "Oh wow nice invuln thanks! I thought we were done for.", conjuration epic is: "Gee I have conceal that's kinda nice oops it's gone already, oh well at least I still have mass camo." No comparison . . . I'm a bigger fan of the DC druid to an extent, with focus on nature's balance which can drop spell resistance considerably on a failed save, something you can do in the hells other than stand around and heal, but on this build you don't have the wisdom or the legendary transmutation focus for that. With the pally level and decent charisma you really don't need save feats, you are a caster so your saves won't be uber nice but they'll be plenty good enough for most places. Combat casting is to some extent of questionable value, even now, and you're giving up a fair number of feats for it. Also I would not bother taking anything other than still spell for druid metamagic, anything else it really not all that helpful. I really don't see any point in putting skill points in appraise when you are neglecting heal that goes into the now important heal spells that are even occasionally useful as damage spells against undead. Spellcraft . . . might be useful but low on priority list I think. On your starting stats . . . Strength is almost a complete waste on a caster druid, once you get items you'll be able to carry your stuff around just fine, it may help on resisting certain checks but largely a waste. Better dex isn't AS wasteful since with a bit more dex you can wear lighter armors while maintaining AC. However I really would avoid nerfing my wisdom to only 20 as druid DCs are becoming more important, and you're going up to great wisdom 8 anyway so why start off so low. Overall I would very strongly advise dropping some save/metamagic feats for another epic (evocation) and/or more wisdom and legendary transmutation focus. Put skill points in heal. Then you will be happy druid -S
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 17, 2007 17:50:38 GMT
I would NOT sacrifice an evocation focus for conjuration . . . period. Yes bombards are your best spell but conjuration focus affects essentially that spell and that spell alone, plus the epic is lackluster at best. The invulnerability epic is part of the standard druid set, incredibly powerful and generally expected for druids to have, plus evocation focus also affects nearly every other damage spell in your repertoire. I'm a bigger fan of the DC druid to an extent, with focus on nature's balance which can drop spell resistance considerably on a failed save, something you can do in the hells other than stand around and heal, but on this build you don't have the wisdom or the legendary transmutation focus for that. With the pally level and decent charisma you really don't need save feats, you are a caster so your saves won't be uber nice but they'll be plenty good enough for most places. Combat casting is to some extent of questionable value, even now, and you're giving up a fair number of feats for it. Also I would not bother taking anything other than still spell for druid metamagic, anything else it really not all that helpful. I really don't see any point in putting skill points in appraise when you are neglecting heal that goes into the now important heal spells that are even occasionally useful as damage spells against undead. Spellcraft . . . might be useful but low on priority list I think. On your starting stats . . . Strength is almost a complete waste on a caster druid, once you get items you'll be able to carry your stuff around just fine, it may help on resisting certain checks but largely a waste. Better dex isn't AS wasteful since with a bit more dex you can wear lighter armors while maintaining AC. However I really would avoid nerfing my wisdom to only 20 as druid DCs are becoming more important, and you're going up to great wisdom 8 anyway so why start off so low. Overall I would very strongly advise dropping some save/metamagic feats for another epic (evocation) and/or more wisdom and legendary transmutation focus. Put skill points in heal. Then you will be happy druid -S Thanks for the insight. I build most my builds in the morning before bed so sometimes I forget things. I'll redo the druid at work today. Both my druid builds aren't final. So thanks for the help, I'll redo them today.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 17, 2007 23:24:16 GMT
-Thanks Again Sabregirl-
Updated to Version 1.02FA - With the help from my good friend sabregirl I have redid this build once again. - It now includes the following:
PROS: ----------------------------- - Great Druid Saves: Fortitude: 65, Reflex: 53, Will: 81 - Nice Free Feats, Evasion, Armor Prof: Heavy, Divine Grace, - Scribe Scroll + UMD ! - Great Wisdom 10! - 18 Constitution + Toughness! - Nice Skills: Tumble(40), UMD(43), Discipline(42)! - Max Druid Skills: Animal Empathy, Concentration, Heal, & Optional Craft Armor, Craft Weapon! - 62 Wisdom! - Lvl50 Druid Pet! - 3 Epic Spell Schools!
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Post by bort on Jul 18, 2007 0:43:20 GMT
Hey Zero, Why scribe scroll? I read through the druid spell list and I can't figure out which druid spells you'd want to cast from scrolls..
Thanks, Bort
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 18, 2007 1:36:00 GMT
Hey Zero, Why scribe scroll? I read through the druid spell list and I can't figure out which druid spells you'd want to cast from scrolls.. Thanks, Bort Its a back-up for when I run out of spells. I can then cast pre-prepared spells I put into scrolls for the mission. Making it possible for me to cast more spells then normal without resting. Which resting sometimes isn't a option. That would be my thinking behind it.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 21, 2007 21:35:22 GMT
Updated To 1.02FA-SE - Added in Blind Fight - Fixed the feats so there taken at better times - This is my final build, for it is the build im playing at the momment. - Fixed any lose ends by rebuilding it twice to make sure. - Scribe Scroll is fun! ^_^
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 26, 2007 17:56:46 GMT
Updated to Version 1.03FA-SE -Fixed the last of the errors in the build that I overlooked when playing with one night and forgot I did. :-P -Changed the feats around to be more effective as a druid build. -ADDED strategy comments so people understand the build better.
This is my final build for this Fallen Angel I can't see it getting any better then this. I will post a new Druid build soon with the "best" subrace in my eyes for the Druid class. I'll use this build and just switch around a couple things. I'll post that one another day, PEACE!
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Post by uncanny on Jul 29, 2007 17:03:03 GMT
I've heard that the dr armor and shields more than make up for the monk ac?
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Jul 29, 2007 19:33:00 GMT
I've heard that the dr armor and shields more than make up for the monk ac? from what I know that is true.
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Aug 3, 2007 19:47:12 GMT
Updated to 1.04FA-SE - Switched 12dex, to 10, and gave INT 14 instead of 12. (Gives you extra points for parry skill) - ADDED parry skill for crit defense, and took EPIC SKILL FOCUS PARRY at level 60. - Removed 4 great wisdom feats for, epic skill focus parry, and epic conjuration. - Build now gives you 4 Epic spells - Still didn't add in improved combat casting because im having fun with defensive casting mode and still think its not worth 2 more wisdom in my build. But if you want to add it, just take away blind fight, and toughness. Or you can take away 2 wis feats. - FIXED all descriptions, saves, and other information posted.
-ZGSE-
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Aug 4, 2007 13:17:56 GMT
Updated the build, but didn't change the version.
-added in descriptions to help newbs
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Post by ZeroGravitySE on Aug 17, 2007 20:44:28 GMT
Updated to Version 3.00 -------------------------- - Changed the entire build! - New Level Progression: 38 Druid, 1 Monk, (1Paladin and/or 1Bard) - Added support for the new changes to highlight what is changing! - Added support for 6 SUBRACES now! - Added support for Max Calculations! - Added support for Skills (more detailed)
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Post by borges on Aug 21, 2007 16:11:32 GMT
A few comments on the build. I won't get into the Bard vs. Paladin debate, as that has been hashed out repeatedly by people more experienced than I.
1. This is a pure caster build, so it surprises me to see that none of the subrace choices starts with maxed Wisdom. It's already difficult to get Nature's Balance to stick; don't make it harder on yourself. So with Rilmani, for example, it seems more sensible to start with 18 WIS, 12 DEX, 12 INT, and 8 CHA. This hurts your saves and skill points (the AC nets out due to monk level), but maximizes your DCs. Tyran's build trades two Great Wisdom feats for Legendary Spell Foci, which seems like a good alternative.
2. The lammasu is not a feat; rather, you get an item from the druid grove that enables you to summon your pet. I'd replace the feat with Empower Spell, which by all accounts is quite useful. As a caster, you want lots of flexibility in your spell selection.
3. Armor Skin seems a bit much. The DMs just handed you literally 22+ points of AC with the new changes, so there must be some better choices out there. On a related note, your AC calculations are 2 too low, as the UR light armors give you +16 rather than +14 (which is for robes). Add one more if you get your hands on the wonderful set hide armor from Minauros.
4. Blind Fight is a waste. None of my casters has it, and none of them has ever had an issue with the to-hit bonus enjoyed by concealed creatures. Because, of course, you will be concealed yourself. More on this below.
5. I don't think this means what you think it means. The Listen skill duplicates the offensive benefits of Blind Fight. The lowered conceal mimics the re-roll that Blind Fight gives you. Listen does not help with the (IMO, extremely limited) defensive benefits of Blind Fight.
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