The Lion of Judah 37 Paladin/2 Black Guard/1 Monk

[omino23]

[glow=red,2,300]UPDATED[/glow]


The goal of this build was to make a viable "caster" pally . Now you might ask what a caster pally is? Its basically a character that at lvl 60 can smite often for hundreds of points of damage, turn/paralyze the undead, outsiders, constructs, and vermin, cast GMW, and even occasionally just wack something upside its evil head. Without any further delay:

Race: Human - Baseborn Titan (+10 Heal & Extra Smiting)
Str: 12 (+2) :14
Dex: 8
Con: 12
Wis: 16 (+2) : 18
Int: 10 (-2) : 08
Cha: 16 (+2) : 18

Level Progression:

1-37 Pally
38 Monk
39-40 Black Gaurd
(at lvl 40 read the enchantment book)

Skillz:
Disp: 43
Tumble: 40
Hide: 12
(Or put the remaining few points into concentration if you feel the need to cast a buff in combat, not like it will help you too much but I figured that a chance of making the concentration check is better than no chance at all)
Naked Saves at 40:
Fort: 39
Reflex: 31
Will: 39

BAB at 40: 29
Naked HP at 40: 516

Pre epic feats in suggested order:
1) Power Attack / Toughness
(free feat: Extra Smiting)
3) Weapon Focus : Scimitar
6) Extra Turning or Improved Critical Scimitar (your choice)
9) Divine Might
12) Divine Shield
15) Blind Fight
18) Extend Spell

Epic Feats once again in suggested order:
21) Great Charisma I
24) Great Charisma II / Armor Skin
27) Great Charisma III / Epic Weapon Focus Scimitar
30) Great Smite I / Great Wisdom I
33) Great Smite II / Great Wisdom II
36) Great Smite III / Great Wisdom III
39) Great Smite IV


Legendary Levels Feats which for your convenience are listed in suggested order:

42) Planar Turning
45) Sun Domain
48) Destruction Domain
51) Fire Domain
54) Good Domain
57) Plant Domain
60) Protection Domain or LL BAB Booyah (your choice)

Ability Additions:
4) +Cha
8) +Cha
12) +Wis
16) +Wis
20) +Cha
24) +Cha
28) +Wis
32) +Wis
36) +Con
40) +Con
42) +Cha
44) +Cha
46) +Cha
48) +Cha
50) +Cha
52) +Cha
54) +Wis
56) +Cha
58) +Cha
60) +Cha

In LL just keep pumping Discipline, I might pump up heal too.


If the CBC calculations are not 100% right on the money they are pretty close and unless I am mistaken this should fulfill my goals for the build. The progression is a long and slow one, but in the end the result should be fairly formidable.

The scimitar is for the crit range, which paired with the inherent divine damage (and a DB scim that you can buff yourself) should yield some nice damage occasionally (i.e when you roll in the crit range if nothing else). This character does not have an insane AB or AC level, there is no conceal. BUT, having (with the secrets) a guardian angel, mass rez and the ability to self buff, turn stuff, and then lay the smite down does kinda make up for these lacking points.

Please let me know how I can make him better or anything I messed up on. This is the revised version taking into account suggestions posted below and way too many nights staying up way too late with paladins on the brain.

-Omino23

[atomicsomething]

Turning ability is based on your Cleric/Pally/BG levels.
COT levels doest count in it.

I'm affraid your turning ( 46 turning level, without counting pally penalties, and domain boosts) will be too low to paralize anything. Never played a turner, may be more experienced players with this can confirm that.

[phalthallus]

I'm probably missing something, but could you swap the GrWis feats for GrSmite, and move the GrWis back to LL's? This would increase your strength, taking all the GrSmites by level 40 that you can.

This character does not have an insane AB or AC level, there is no conceal or evasion

Actually you WILL have evasion, with the one level of monk.

[unnone]

Please don't take the following criticism as anything other than constructive. It's rough, but I feel I'm being completely honest.

First. You're not gonna hit much of anything with your smite. You're probably not going to hit much of anything at all. Greater Smite works off of your char's ab, minus ab buffs. Your ab will be 30 (from test chamber @40) + 3 (6 str from great smite feats) + 2 (from 4 str bonuses in LL) + 20 max (gmw + divine, capped at 20 total)+ 6 (+12 str)= 61, which is in my experience the top end of whiffing range. Most mobs in LL areas have AC of 60+. You'll lose 6 of that ab on your smite, because I don't think greater smite will take into account your divine glory or whatever it is called.

Turning's already been covered by someone else. This char's turning ability is limited.

You will have a STR tank's AC. Divine shield will give you no boost at all, since it's dodge ac bonus, and UR boots + haste caps you at 20. You're going to get hit.

So, in my opinion, this char isn't a good tank, it's not a good turner, it's not a good smiter, and it's not a great support char. You're trying to cover 4 roles at once - support, smiter, tank, and turner - and you're not going to be viable as any of them, really.

The top end game on this server is designed around characters that are idiot savants at what they do - builds focused on doing one or two things extremely well. A jack-of-all-trades character struggles as a result, since a group of idiot savants would devastate a group of monsters that a group of jacks would find a challenge.

If you want to hang back and cast, you should pick a cleric or druid. Great Smite isn't worth losing the utility of a full repetoire of cleric spells. In its current state, greater smite is a questionable ability at best.

If you want a turner, you should pick a cleric. To effectively turn, you need to cover extra domains, which are going to eat legendary feats up.

If you want a smiter, you need to build a tank who can hit with his smite and who can do something besides click on his belt for two minutes while waiting for his smite to recharge.

[omino23]

They say if you build it they will come.
TYVM to all that have commented. I am going to update the original post to start taking the great wisdom in LL for the net result of +10 str at 41 as well as with other details I work out as I level this character.

I will report on what he can and cant turn as well as how often his smites/attacks hit. I have found with every build I have taken to LL on this server that I learn a little more and have alot of fun doing it. I might just also forget about turning and use those wisdom points more wisely

[archmage]

I can tell you with definite certainty, you wont be able to turn well enough to make it worth the cost. If you want to be a good turner, you need to go all the way with it.

[unnone]

More power to you. I've built a couple chars I knew were going to have problems, and learned a bit from each one (although my doublebladed assassin is very fun to play). You'll probably find around level 50 that this char just isn't doing well at all, though.

[omino23]

I am still tweaking this, I have been a CBC nut over the last few days, heck I am even working this out with Treant to try and fit it all in, perhaps RDD would add something ? something like 28 pally, 2 bard, 10 rdd as just a smiter? I have also been playing around with adding BG into the mix for something like 2 BG/1mnk/37 pally as a turner, I can get the wisdom there and the caster levels but have to sacrifice alot for the smite as well as having enough domains. I am thinking that it might just be better to work out a smiter and a turner and not try and do both but I still think that there must be a way to get it all in and still be effective. I like combining the pally and BG bonus to saves to make up for short comings in saves. I figure that I will need at least once it is all said and done 26 cha and 26 wis and then as much str as possible. The gold of this is to have a smiter who can also turn, I dont care about the healing too much but figured it would be a nice bonus. The taunt is a really nice skill on paper but waiting for the character to insult the monster usually gives them enough time to make you into dinner.

[unnone]

If you dilute your levels with non=turning classes, you're hurting your turning severely.

If you dilute your smite with non=smiting classes, you cost yourself smite damage, and also cost yourself bonus feats. If all you want is the stat bonus from Gr Smite, that's fine. I made a build a while back that was 20 pal/1 brd/ 10 rdd staggerd with 8 paladin on feat levels/ 1 brd - that was the build that gave me the highest ab of all.

[omino23]

updated

[Raj]

why monk at lvl 1 and not at 37+ ?

and the 2 bg levels are for...

[unnone]

I dunno why he's taking monk at level 1 instead of 38, which is when I'd take it. He's taking two bg levels for blackguard save bonus, though.

Those two bg levels are going to lower your turning ability by 2. Monk level will drop you by another point. Since turning is a d8 roll, that's really going to leave a mark.

Also, if you're focusing in scimitar, it's a shame to not take improved critical to go from 18-20 to 15-20 threat range.

[Raj]

unnone said:

I He's taking two bg levels for blackguard save bonus, though.

ye i suspected but wanted to hear from him

this is a charisma based paladin, think there's no need at all to splash blakguard. Last time i checked hell save req were 60-65, not 80+

[omino23]

ok I have updated again. I am not sure what I was thinking with the monk level, it is best at 38. The black gaurd levels are there for the bonus to saves, with the penalties and also mean effects from monsters and such I just wanted to get the saves to the point where you would not have to worry about missing any saves unless you roll a 1 ever. I also have black gaurd there because it is a class that counts towards your turner level, I am not so sure that it would decrease by 2 because even if black gaurds were only half effective at turning it would only be a decrease of 1. Thanks so much all for the help and suggestions on this build.

[kaldair]

I was wondering about changing from Monk to Bard as an option. You'll lose evasion - which I'm reading more & more from experienced builders is not that great a loss. You'll gain UMD - again, I'm reading more & more how big a benefit this is in the Hells. Maybe this is a good time for a couple of the mega-builders to chime in on the relative merits of splashing Bard vs Monk in this type of build?

Kaldair