Touch Of Heaven (49 Clr,10 Wiz,1 Monk)

[PotsNPans]

Greetings all, This will be my first post on a character that I think could come out pretty good. Since its new I would love to have all you opinions on how to make her more durable and offensive capable. This is based off the new quasi class, which I must tip my hat again to HG staff. ;D Awesome work on the new update and additions

*Modified*

12 Wizard / 26 Cleric / 2 Cheese Monk, Theurge
Race:Stargazer(Elf) +4 INT,+4 WIS, +2 DEX, -2 CHA, -2 CON
Starting stats - Race points - Ending stats
Str. 8 -8- 8
Dex. 10-12- 12
Con. 14-12 - 12
Wis. 18 - 24 - 62
Int. 12 -16 - 16
Cha. 8 - 6 - 6

(Free Race Feats) Spell Focus Divination, Defensive Roll
Cleric Domains: Magic, Plant
On Cleric and Wizard Lvls. up Spellcraft, Heal, Concentration

[glow=red,2,300](Clr)Lvl.1 Spell Focus Evocation
(Clr)Lvl.2
(Clr)Lvl.3 Greater Spell Focus Evocation
(Clr)Lvl.4
(Clr)Lvl.5
(Clr)Lvl.6 Spell Penetration
(Clr)Lvl.7
(Clr)Lvl.8
(Clr)Lvl.9 Toughness
(Clr)Lvl.10
(Wiz)Lvl.11
(Wiz)Lvl.12 Lighting Reflexes
(Wiz)Lvl.13
(Wiz)Lvl.14
(Wiz)Lvl.15 Great Fortitude(Wiz)Extend Spell
(Wiz)Lvl.16
(Wiz)Lvl.17
(Wiz)Lvl.18 Greater Spell Focus Divination
(Wiz)Lvl.19 (Theurge) Epic Skill Focus Spellcraft
(Clr.)Lvl.20
(Wiz)Lvl.21 Epic Spell Penetration(Wiz) Greater Spell Penetration
(Wiz)Lvl.22
(Wiz)Lvl.23
(Clr)Lvl.24 Epic Spell Focus Evocation
(Clr)Lvl.25
(Clr)Lvl.26
(Clr)Lvl.27 Great Wisdom 1
(Clr)Lvl.28
(Clr)Lvl.29
(Clr)Lvl.30 Great Wisdom 2
(Clr)Lvl.31
(Clr)Lvl.32
(Clr)Lvl.33 Great Wisdom 3
(Clr)Lvl.34
(Clr)Lvl.35
(Clr)Lvl.36 Epic Reflex, Great Wisdom 4
(Clr)Lvl.37
(Clr)Lvl.38
(Clr)Lvl.39 Epic Spell Foucs Div,Great Wisdom 5
(Monk)Lvl.40[/glow] Disc. 43, Tumble, 43 Use Book: Abjuration
[glow=red,2,300](Clr)Lvl.41
(Clr)Lvl.42 LL Spell Focus Evocation
(Clr)Lvl.43
(Clr)Lvl.44
(Clr)Lvl.45 LL Spell Penetration
(Clr)Lvl.46
(Clr)Lvl.47
(Clr)Lvl.48 Great Wisdom 6
(Clr)Lvl.49
(Clr)Lvl.50
(Clr)Lvl.51 LL Lightning Reflexes
(Clr)Lvl.52
(Clr)Lvl.53
(Clr)Lvl.54 LL Great Fortitude
(Clr)Lvl.55
(Clr)Lvl.56
(Clr)Lvl.57 Great Wisdom 7
(Clr)Lvl.58
(Clr)Lvl.59
(Clr)Lvl.60 Great Wisdom 8[/glow]

Now the saves come out to be Fort 64, Reflex 62, and well Will is up there! Also, pls check my math on the saves. The Wisdom of 62 is great for save DCs. Hit Points will be 840. You'll wind up being able to cast lvl 6 wizard spells (tensers and EV) and all of the cleric spells your meat and bread.

Please I would love your comments on anything I missed, this is my first character, Please help nurse me along. Thanks in advance ;D

[Acaos]

With only 10 levels of wizard you will only have access to 5th-level spells. You won't need more than the base 18 Intelligence required for Theurge (you can drop Intelligence one point and put the points in another stat such as Strength or Dexterity; I'd recommend Dexterity for Reflex saves).

Your Will saves will be just fine even without LL Luck. I'd say you might want to do the Fort change to get your Fort over 60. Failing your Reflex save usually means taking damage; failing your Fortitude save often means death.

Which book are you planning to use?

Acaos

[PotsNPans]

This is for the new quasi class, you get caster lvls in both when you meet 9 lvls of clr and 9 lvls of wiz by lvl 20 with 18 int and wis. ;D I like it. ;D

[Acaos]

You get caster levels, not spell slots.

Acaos

[PotsNPans]

I modified it so I can get up to lvl 6 spells, which is really what this is all about is buffing a cleric with wiz spells two biggest being tensers and EV. The only real spells your missing out on would be preminition, Time stop, Mord, greater spell mantle, power word kill, which you can cast off of scrolls. Also i changed to LL fort instead of LL reflex, as well as epic reflex boosting the save into the 60's. This gives this character nice concealment with good saves high ac and casting power.

[PotsNPans]

Made some small modification to get a more rounded base for saves.

[Raj]

from the other theurge topic:

budd said:

Good point rajah, i got a build on here for a theurge, its called touch of heaven. It almost the exact way you described your build. Check mine out and tell me how yours differs.

ye pretty much the same, mine gives up toughness and epic reflexes for 2 more great wis, and only 1 monk lvl ( why taking 2 anyway? understand the little boost to saves pre epic but deflect arrows isn't going to work using a torch anyway )

personal preferences btw, my build lacks reflexes ( a respectable 57 btw ) and 60 hp for + 1 dc and casterlev, it comes to playstyle.

[holes573]

Pardon my stupidity, but I'm just not seeing the value in the Theurge quasiclass, at least as described here. It seems that the main advantage of this build over a straight cleric build is that you can buff with tensers and EV. But, those spells can't be cast in armor. So, does a straight cleric's armor and shield provide much, if not more benefit?

You mention that many wizard spells can be cast off scrolls, but can't that be done by anyone with a high UMD?

I just got a Stargazer book and I'm trying to igure out whether this combo wiz/cleric makes sense.

[Acaos]

holes573 said:

Pardon my stupidity, but I'm just not seeing the value in the Theurge quasiclass, at least as described here. It seems that the main advantage of this build over a straight cleric build is that you can buff with tensers and EV. But, those spells can't be cast in armor. So, does a straight cleric's armor and shield provide much, if not more benefit?

Caster clerics are squishy. Really squishy. They are the glass cannons of HG. You would certainly give up armor and shield for robe and torch (to get monk AC), but gaining EV and Tenser's will significantly help survivability.

Note that you need at least 11 Wizard levels to get EV and Tenser's (which I see this build has after rework - please update the thread title).

Acaos

[holes573]

acaos said:

holes573 said:

Caster clerics are squishy. Really squishy. They are the glass cannons of HG. You would certainly give up armor and shield for robe and torch (to get monk AC), but gaining EV and Tenser's will significantly help survivability.

True, but many shields and armor (especially UR versions) have nice immunities (as well other benefits to abilities, saves, etc.) that tensers and EV don't have. Another way of saying this is that mages that use tensers and EV are still squishy.

[borges]

holes573 said:

acaos said:

holes573 said:

Caster clerics are squishy. Really squishy. They are the glass cannons of HG. You would certainly give up armor and shield for robe and torch (to get monk AC), but gaining EV and Tenser's will significantly help survivability.

True, but many shields and armor (especially UR versions) have nice immunities (as well other benefits to abilities, saves, etc.) that tensers and EV don't have. Another way of saying this is that mages that use tensers and EV are still squishy.

That's crazy talk. The relevant comparison is not "armor + shield" vs "Tenser's + EV" but rather vs "Tenser's + EV + robes + torch."

Pure mages that use robes and torch max out at AC of around 101-105 or so with 75-80% EV conceal. A WIS-based theurge can get up to 115+ with robes and 75% EV conceal. You tell me which one is squishier. The additional 15% physical damage immunity that you get from heavier armor doesn't begin to make up a 10 point AC difference.

[PotsNPans]

There is so much more that i can do with this build ive just been kicking around whats best. I mean i could take a level of aa and be a great cleric caster that can also do some minimum damage with a bow if need be or take a slind and still use my shield and . All that is needed is zen archery, also you can take still spell up to auto still 2 to get the lvl 6 spells to cast in armor. Im kinda waiting why i kick these ideas around. What do you guys think would be better sling option or an archer?

[mrbadexample]

PotsNPans,

My understanding you must have 18 int and wis to even become a theurge. I see that Acaos mentioned not to take the int required for theurge. Is this build still viable without becoming a theurge?

[Acaos]

I mentioned not to take more than 18. He originally had 19, but would never be able to cast 9th-level spells.

Acaos

[mrbadexample]

ah, just seeing that his ending stat on INT was 16 that was what concerned me.