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Post by Past Mourning on Jun 10, 2007 22:34:35 GMT
[shadow=red,left,300] [glow=red,2,300]Champion of the Shadow Plane[/glow][/shadow]  So tell me what you think? I know the ab needs work but it still needs 6 great str feats. After equipped with items I already have saved or on other toons, these are the stats I have for it:
[glow=red,2,300]HP: 980
DR: 60/+15 (not sure if that helps at all)
AC: 125 (w/ 60% concealment)
AB: 60/55/50/45 (w/o enchant or attack bonus)
AB: 74/69/64/59 (w/ GMW for those who need me to show)
Saves: F67/R65/W64 (w/ +8 vs spells)[/glow]
I know the first thing you point out will be "Why a Doppleganger? Bad choice." Well.. As I have said before, appearance is 9/10s of the law for me. On my character builds the first thing I look at is "Hmmm, whats the coolest looking race I have now?" And none looks better than any of my choice! ;D Besides, it's a +3 to a much needed will save! Iron will and epic will didn't make the difference.
Anyway give me feedback. As soon as I fine miss Badger this character will begin it's way to making it on the builds page!
P.S. That still leaves me with one LL feat.. so if you have any ideas what it should be let me know! (Have Armor Skin, EWF, Epic Will, Fort and Reflex, as well as all ESF and epic prowess)
-Edit- Forgot Shadow Dancers get a d8 not d6, also forgot to add toughness in LL.
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Post by kaldair on Jun 10, 2007 23:09:56 GMT
I'd be tempted to go with Pally rather than CoT for the saves bonus....
Kaldair
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Post by Lythe Featherblade on Jun 10, 2007 23:56:55 GMT
I'm guessing you'll get a message from funky to follow the posting guidelines for this section...
mainly, what does this do? You have nice conceal, but low strength and nothing else but the SD abilities, that extra attack you're getting at 60 will be at such low AB that I doubt it'll ever even hit.
If you put the feat list at least, it would be easier to make suggestings (like the SD epic feats, beyond skill focus discipline, what are you picking?) Right now you may want to up your damage output a bit, maybe switch to scimitar, light flail, or even spend that extra feat and go bastard sword.
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Post by Past Mourning on Jun 11, 2007 0:15:31 GMT
Well a few add-ons. I took epic fort reflex and will still not knowing what legendary feats there are. Finally I found them thanks to help from Miss Celestial Badger. I will be removing those (aside from epic reflex since I get it from epic SD) and getting Legendary Will and Fort giving me a +3 bonus to both. I will also be taking Luck of Hero's and Legendary Luck of Hero's for the extra Legendary feat I have giving me a +7 bonus to Fort and Will and a +4 to Reflex. As for my damage, Str, weapon damage and attack bonus, I am only losing 2 ab, 1 from being Doppleganger and 1 from starting with 17 str and having great str 9.. other than that my ab and str is at the highest it can be for this. Epic prowess, Epic Weapon Focus, Great Str 9, and all ability points in Str.
P.S. I'm not trying to officially post my build right now, I guess I could have just thrown it in the Tavern but that didn't seem like the best place for it. That is also why my full stats are not posted. I believe though you missed the part where I said that this is my ab without any enchantments. With just a +11 weapon (Dis) my ab would be 71, GMW it could be 74, bard song, possibly 80.. It might not be the best ab ever but it's not like I won't be able to hit. The only way I can think of to get more ab is to do what I am leaving up to anyone who would like to make this build also, and that is to choose a better race for it. Something with a Str bonus instead of a Str pen.. but I don't care, this character is for my personal use, if you wasn't to make it better feel free. It shouldn't be hard to do. Max out str, choose a race with a dex bonus and str bonus, and get great str 10! Now your character has 3-4 more ab than mine meaning 64 ab without attack increase on your weapon or any buffs.
Ohh yes, also as far as weapons go, you can choose a weapon with a higher crit range but encase you haven't noticed the damage on weapons is different. Some, such as ones with higher crit range and onces that have been modified like the Bastard Sword have more damage types that creatures are stronger against. Those weapons might do well on East Road but then when you get to Hells you notice allot of the damage your throwing at them is getting soaked... Bastard Sword has been made nice though and I would like to use one. With my feats being: Weapon Focus, Toughness, Improved Crit, Dodge, Mobility, Blind Fighting, Great Fort, Iron Will and Luck of Hero's- it doesn't leave allot of room for play.
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Post by Past Mourning on Jun 11, 2007 1:36:16 GMT
Ok heres the breakdown so far sense I will soon be making it in full form.
___________________________________________
Races-
Human- a good starter race for this class. The extra feat helps alot.
Stinger-A great race for this build for the dex, str and con bonus.
Any race that gets a str, con, or dex bonus without a pen to any of the same and allows Human as a base class works well for this build.
If you have a race that gives one of the feats listed that too would be a great benifit to this build, esp if it does not hinder ability points (Str,Con,Dex)
_____________________________________________
Basic Human=
Base/Lvl20/LvL40/Lvl60
Str 17/ 22/ 32/ 46
Dex 14/ 14/ 14/ 14
Con 16/ 16/ 16/ 16
Int 8/ 8/ 8/ 8
Wis 11/ 11/ 11/ 11
Cha 8/ 8/ 8/ 8
Stinger=
Str 21/ 26/ 36/ 50
Dex16/ 16/ 16/ 16
Con18/ 18/ 18/ 18
Int 8/ 8/ 8/ 8
Wis 9/ 9/ 9/ 9
Cha 6/ 6/ 6/ 6
_______________________________________________
level_|_ability_| feat
1-R_|________| Luck of Heros\Dodge\Favored Enemy (Outsider)
2-R__|_______|
3-R__|_______| Mobility
4-R__|__Str__|
5-R__|_______|
6-R__|_______| Weapon Focus
7-R__|_______|
8-CoT|__Str __|
9-CoT|_______| Improved Crit
10-SD|_______|
11-SD|_______|
12-SD|__Str__| Iron Will
13-SD|_______|
14-SD|_______|
15-SD|_______| Great Fort
16-SD|__Str__|
17-SD|_______|
18-SD|_______| Toughness
19-SD|_______|
20-R_|__Str__|
21-SD|_______| Epic Weapon Focus
22-SD|_______|
23-SD|_______| (SD) Epic Reflex
24-SD|__Str__| Great Str I
25-SD|_______|
26-SD|_______| (SD)Epic Skill Focus Disc
27-SD|_______| Great Str II
28-SD|__Str__|
29-SD|_______| (SD) Shadow Lord (not alot else to use it in)
30-SD|_______| Armor Skin
31-SD|_______|
32-SD|__Str__| (SD) Epic Skill Focus Spell Craft
33-SD|_______| Great Str III
34-SD|_______|
35-SD|_______| (SD) Misc. Epic Skill Focus
36-SD|__Str__| Great Str IV
37-SD|_______|
38-SD|_______| (SD) Misc. Epic Skill Focus
39-SD|__Str__|
40-SD|_______| Great Str V
41-SD|_______|
42-SD|__Str__| Legendary Luck of Hero's
43-SD|_______|
44-SD|__Str__|
45-SD|_______| Legendary Will
46-SD|__Str__|
47-SD|_______|
48-SD|__Str__| Legendary Fort
49-SD|_______|
50-SD|__Str__|
51-SD|_______| Great Str VI
52-SD|__Str__|
53-SD|_______|
54-SD|__Str__| Great Str VII
55-SD|_______|
56-SD|__Str__|
57-SD|_______| Great Str VIII
58-SD|__Str__|
59-SD|_______|
60-SD|__Str__| Great Str IX
_______________________________________________
Skills-
Disc-Add Disc threw your Ranger levels maxing it out at level 20 for 23 points. In LL levels, starting with level 42 you will want to cross class this skill gaining 31 disc at level 60.
Tumble-Max this skill out on all Shadow Dancer levels untill 57 with 60 points in tumble, gaining 12 ac (tumble/5) Base skill counts only.
Spell Craft-Cross class this skill every level to gain a saving throws bonus vs spells equil to spell craft/5 incusing all increases, unlike tumble for ac.
Pick Pocket-You only need a few skill points in this, 21 if you keep your dex mod maxed. DC is only 30 for pick pocketing hostle creatures. If you max it out though and ESF the creatures will not see you pick thier pocket and there will be no flat footed delay while waiting for your character to pick pocket them.
You will still have extra skill points to spend how you like, with many epic skill focuses to throw into them, so do not be shy with them. Search, Appraise, Set Traps, Heal- All fine choices.
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Post by Raj on Jun 11, 2007 16:23:07 GMT
you are missing blind fight, give up toughness for it better trade 2 great str feats ( +1 to hit, +1 dmg, +1 disc ) for epic prowess and armor skin ( +1 ab, +2 ac ) spellcraft is useless, if not dangerous: it falls under the +20 magic cap to saves ( along with cot ), and could be lowered enough from hell penalities that you actually lose saves instead of gaining them sry can't say much more, bit hard to read  |
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Post by Past Mourning on Jun 11, 2007 17:37:54 GMT
Uhh... woops.. how did I forget blindfighting? I swear I have it on my test.. hmm. Ohh well, I think it is greatly over-rared on this server. If it were a arena server I would think different but I don't see many creatures with concealment though i haven't been to deep in the pits of hell. It helps if your blind but if you have true seeing it offsets the pens from being blind anyway. Other than that attackers don't get the +2 to attack they normally would if hidden or invisible.. don't think we have to worry about that here. On a added note unless hells drops your skills by 40 I don't think you have to worry about losing saves thanks to spell-craft but it is waisted.. just a bunch of skill points even with 10 or 8 int and not allot to spend them in.
I figure everyone has had it drilled in their head from the start that blindfighting is a must, and it pretty much is, so long as theres a need for it.. and as it is.. theres some critters with concealment, like the maze, but I'm not worried about the maze. Hell is my concern now and everything before is just a 3 ring circus side show.
Also I have armor skin, so losing 2 great str for 1 ab wouldn't be a good option. I guess though if you wanted to you could lose 2 great strs and get epic powess and blind fighting. A loss of 1 damage 1 disc.
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Post by bort on Jun 11, 2007 18:08:48 GMT
Ohh well, I think it is greatly over-rared on this server. If it were a arena server I would think different but I don't see many creatures with concealment though i haven't been to deep in the pits of hell. It helps if your blind but if you have true seeing it offsets the pens from being blind anyway. Other than that attackers don't get the +2 to attack they normally would if hidden or invisible.. don't think we have to worry about that here. When blind you'll face a 50% miss chance on hitting anything regardless of having true seeing or not (tested). Blind fight seems to reduce or negate that (Funky says reduce, although from my limited testing it seemed to negate it completely). I figure everyone has had it drilled in their head from the start that blindfighting is a must, and it pretty much is, so long as theres a need for it.. and as it is.. theres some critters with concealment, like the maze, but I'm not worried about the maze. Hell is my concern now and everything before is just a 3 ring circus side show. Plenty of enemies have conceal in the mod, especially in hell. I guess though if you wanted to you could lose 2 great strs and get epic powess and blind fighting. A loss of 1 damage 1 disc. Sounds worth it, imo. |
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Post by chainlink on Jun 12, 2007 14:13:57 GMT
As mentioned before, you do realise that CoT saves bonus is not in addition to the items saves therefore if you swapped paladin for CoT you'd get +4 to all saves (even with your crappy Cha) and immunity to fear vs......... I have no idea what bonus two levels of CoT would give you?
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Post by alandrian on Jun 12, 2007 14:18:31 GMT
One free feat without xp penalty like fighter.
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Post by chainlink on Jun 12, 2007 14:59:08 GMT
No free feat listed on the build (mistake I'm guessing?) and Human - Doppleganger would give you no exp penalty for the second non-prestige class.
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Post by lala on Jun 12, 2007 23:22:24 GMT
I am really not sure about the AB you are listing. You end up with 46 str at 60, with items thats 58 and a bonus of +24. The breakdown I see for yours is: BAB = 27 WF = 3 (thats including EWF, didnt see Epic Prowess in build) STR = 24 (thats including items) AB = 54 (thats str maxed with items) Max AB = 74 (thats from GMW/Aid/Bless/Bardsong, etc) Still trying to work out how you got 60AB without gmw, etc when I calculated a 54 with items Still, its a pretty good AB to have when buffed, someone else can check the saves  Note: With stinger the Str = 26 and so Max AB would be 76, very nice. Lala |
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Post by unnone on Jun 13, 2007 14:57:15 GMT
1) Why is your dex so high? This looks like a build you started to build as a dual wield build, and then switched halfway through.
2) Why 8 levels of Ranger? You need 9 to get improved 2w fighting. You would need light armor to take advantage of your free dual wield feats, and going dual wield as a str tank in the end game is kind of hairy even with full damage soak.
3) If you're holding off with those 8 levels for CoT, you're better off going with paladin or fighter in its place, depending on whether you want saves or feats. If you're trying to avoid xp penalty is an annoyance - there will never be a shortage of XP. You get an extra free feat with fighter in return for a 2.5 million point xp penalty. I'd gladly pay 2.5 million xp for a free feat. If you start with fighter, you also free up wisdom points, since fighters have no minimum on stats. Going 8 fighter/2 ranger gives you the same AB,and 4 more pre epic feats to play with, as well as 3 more stat points.
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