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Post by gruntgruntson on May 30, 2007 14:52:51 GMT
Does this mean Divine Slinger's DCs are ONLY 4/5 WIS modifier, or are 10+spell level +4/5 WIS mod +feats?
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Post by Acaos on May 30, 2007 15:23:40 GMT
10 + (4/5 Wis modifier) + spell level + feats.
Acaos
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Post by Puppy Z on May 30, 2007 15:29:25 GMT
I must learn to read.. In my mind it was 5/4 th and ... well nuf said. I missed it completely. But Acos' math doesn't make it THAT bad.
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Post by cathedralmaster on May 30, 2007 17:21:41 GMT
I must learn to read.. In my mind it was 5/4 th and ... well nuf said. I missed it completely. But Acos' math doesn't make it THAT bad. With the same wisdom and assuming you go pure cleric, your DC will be 6 lower than a half-celestial cleric, your spells will only have a penetration of 46 + 1d20 (assuming you have all the spell pen feats) compared to 66 to 68 + 1d20 for a caster cleric (63 + 1d20 for the standard 35 battle cleric), and your caster level will be 20-22 lower (17 lower in comparision to battle clerics, which nerfs the damage on everything pretty considerably). Effectively, your pure cleric divine slinger at 60 will play spell wise like a cheese caster cleric who just got immo or a lvl 43 battle cleric. Additionally, it will mean: - Implosion will be effectively useless outside of Raz. - Energy drain will max at 3d4, compared to 5-6d4 for a caster or battle cleric. - UEF's ac bonus will max at +7 instead of a real clerics +11-12 and only have 1/2 the duration per caster level, which means a duration of only 31% - 35% that of battle or caster clerics respectively (76 rounds compared to 220-240 rounds). - Greater Restore will never get it's hells effect rendering it near worthless. - Regeneration will max at +11 instead of 27-32 for a battle or caster cleric. - Resurrection will never get it's additional temp hp ability. - Your greater sanctuary duration will be 17-22 levels less than a battle or caster cleric. - Healing circle will max at 1d8 + 144 compared to a battle clerics 1d8 + 605. - Spell Resistance will max out at 50 compared to 67 for a battle cleric and 70-72 for a caster cleric. - Prayer will only have +2 bonuses instead of +3. - Energy buffer will max out at 950 with a resistance of 40/- instead of a battle clerics's 2500 with a resistance of 55/- (if I've done the math right). ADDED: A bit of editing, reworking.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jun 5, 2007 21:21:19 GMT
3) Your primary stat is wisdom (not wiZdom, btw), with Zen Archery for AB on your build, you splash many classes, and obviously plan to wear heavy armor and shield? That's a weird mix of everything. Using WIS as a primary stat would beg for many caster levels, making you a decent cleric. Or you go with DEX and wear robe and shield, making you a decent dex tank. YMMV Having a real problem trying to make dex based divine slinger personally. You'd think it would be simple but the bonus cleric feats are incredibly limited for such a build. Literally, and I do mean this literally, unless you already wasted a general feat to get the basic spell focus, the only options you'll have for epic cleric feats are Armor Skin and Great Wisdom. That's it. I made one in the testing chamber and I couldn't believe my eyes. You can't even take the basic cleric feats like weapon profeciency (exotic) as epic cleric feats. So if you go pure 40 levels of cleric which is what seems to be intended, your stuck taking at least 5 great wisdoms, whether you want to or not. It means you have 21 general feats + armor skin to take everything which is pretty pathetic. Oh, and you can't take self concealment without limiting yourself to 31 + LL cleric levels, 9 monk levels since otherwise you lack improved evasion. Still, the best your going to do with UR equipment on a slinger is 117 ac pure for a wisdom build compared to 126 even if you have only 8 great dex so I still think it's the better option given the craptacular spells. EDIT: Assumed small race, specifically Furchin, in the ac calculations.
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Post by Grogbot on Jun 5, 2007 21:34:32 GMT
I think WIS slinger is the way to go: you're forced to take Zen Archery anyway and you end up buying Great Wis as cleric bonus feats. This means, to be sure, you can spend your normal stat buys elsewhere if you like.
You sacrfice self conceal, but remember you get some benefit from Entropic Shield.
Also, if you don't completely dump STR, you might be able to use some of the better tower shields.
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Post by fragment on Jun 6, 2007 0:08:38 GMT
3) Your primary stat is wisdom (not wiZdom, btw), with Zen Archery for AB on your build, you splash many classes, and obviously plan to wear heavy armor and shield? That's a weird mix of everything. Using WIS as a primary stat would beg for many caster levels, making you a decent cleric. Or you go with DEX and wear robe and shield, making you a decent dex tank. YMMV Having a real problem trying to make dex based divine slinger personally. You'd think it would be simple but the bonus cleric feats are incredibly limited for such a build. Literally, and I do mean this literally, unless you already wasted a general feat to get the basic spell focus, the only options you'll have for epic cleric feats are Armor Skin and Great Wisdom. That's it. I made one in the testing chamber and I couldn't believe my eyes. You can't even take the basic cleric feats like weapon profeciency (exotic) as epic cleric feats. One set of feats you can take as bonus feats, is greater and epic spell focusses, so you can trade 2 wisdoms+1 general feat for an esf (for epics). You must have 19 wisdom for the epics, though. Take a look at the not-so-divine slinger I made. It's a pretty good dex tank, but the damage output is making me sad every time I play him. Defensively, he does very well with the 119 or 120 AC he has, with modest gear and aegis and girding. A primary goal with either DEX or WIS based would be to increase damage output, and I have no idea how one would go about that. The real trade-off between DEX and WIS is, lower AC vs. heavy armor and more spells. IMO that's not going to make a difference. It's very possible that I haven't seen the light yet, though Regards!
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