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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 19, 2007 1:59:32 GMT
You can get all 7 wm by 20. Monk at 1 is for the kama, so you can take weap focus kama. I'll post the details now that I'm retooling it for shard. Gimme a bit. The saves in the hells are a bit of a problem, though I may be pushing them down a bit. Need Epic Will and Fort for sure. Funky
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Post by starlandra on Jan 19, 2007 4:32:35 GMT
well funky you start with bard, and you are level 3 for free so you can take monk at level 2 and have weapon focue kama before you ever head out of town. I have done this and I will be 7 wm by level 20 as well.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 19, 2007 6:37:38 GMT
May be possible, may not, honestly don't remember. I was responding to the other poster who was having diffuculty fitting it all in before 20, not you. The larger problem is of course that you can take focus at 1st level with a monk. Will be settled when I post the build. Though frankly I doubt having to do two alignment shifts instead of one is really worth the extra 2000 xp unless you happen to have someone waiting for you at the altar. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 19, 2007 7:24:38 GMT
After retracing my steps, here are starting stats and feats through 12: 8 str -> 6 16 dex -> 18 12 con -> 10 12 Wis -> 14 14 Int -> 16 14 Cha -> 16 1 Expertise 1 Toughness (will be a few choices here, like blind fight, in final build) 3 Mobility 6 WF: Kama (could prolly take this at 3, didn't check, don't care all that much) 9 Spring Attack 12 Whirlwind Can take monk or bard first, I think I took monk to avoid the hassle of the double switch, mightve done bard tho for extra level, can't remember. Next 7 levels are WM, for ab. Feats are no longer on the straight and narrow, but finesse, ambi, and 2 wpn seem obvious candidates. More to come... Funky
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Post by xarkon on Jan 20, 2007 0:46:32 GMT
Thanks! That's what I wanted to know.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 21, 2007 9:52:11 GMT
Here's the full build layout.
"Pixie" (secret subrace) - requires Human (changes Appearance) STR -2, CON -2, DEX +2, INT +2, WIS +2, CHA +2, +2 listen, +2 search, +2 spot, increased base movement rate - very fast, sr 10 + 1/lvl, free feat: Low-Light
Vision, free feat: Dodge, reduces character size to small, able to walk on quicksand, speaks Sylvan
pre -> post subrace edits 8 str -> 6 16 dex -> 18 12 con -> 10 12 Wis -> 14 14 Int -> 16 14 Cha -> 16
all dex
with 10 dex in pre-LL and 10 in LL and 6 Great Dexterity feats and Wisdom artifact your level 60 stats are:
str 6 dex 44 con 10 wis 16 int 16 cha 16
Monk at 1, bard 2-12, wm 13-19, bard after
28 pts first level 8 per bard level 6 per wm level
take 4 intim at 5th level (costs 8 points, leaving 52 available) only disc on WM levels
25 perform by level 22
leaves 293 at level 40
skills by 40 43 disc 43 conc 43 perform 29 pick pocket 43 tumble 43 taunt 34 umd 40 heal === 8x20=160 skill points from levels 41-60
from 41 to 60 max disc, conc, perform, taunt, and heal tumble to 60 you can add more to pp and/or umd to cushion them against hells penalties, but with your max bardsong at +16 skill and stat bonuses it isn't necessary can dump the extra points spellcraft conc xxdisc xxperform xxpick pocket spellcraft xxtaunt xxtumble umd 34
1 Expertise 1 Toughness 3 Weapon Focus: Kama 6 Mobility 9 Spring Attack 12 Whirlwind 15 Weapon Finesse 18 Improved Critical: Kama 21 Curse Song 24 Epic Weapon Focus: Kama 27 Ambidexterity 30 Two Weapon Fighting 31 (bard bonus feat) Lasting Inspiration 33 Improved Two Weapon Fighting 34 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity I 36 Blind Fight 37 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity II 39 Great Dexterity III 40 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity IV 42 Armor Skin 45 Improved Expertise 48 Epic Prowess 51 Epic Fortitude 54 Great Fortitude 57 Great Dexterity V 60 Great Dexterity VI
Dodge (pixie) Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment (from book)
Use Wisdom artifact for mind immunity, as well as +1 will and ac.
Spell Choices:
Cantrips: All
First: Grease Cure Light Wounds Identify Mage Armor Protection from Alignment
Second: Clarity Cure Moderate wounds Darkness Silence Ultravision
Third: Displacement Greater Magic Weapon Gust of Wind Keen Edge Wounding Whispers
Fourth: Cure Critical Wounds Improved Invisibility Legend Lore War Cry your choice (I take Dismissal)
Fifth: All
Sixth: Dirge Energy Buffer Ice Storm Mass Haste
I'll be posting a Half-Kyton version shortly. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 21, 2007 10:55:12 GMT
Differnces from Pixie build: Much better hit points and fortitude No speed, no sr to speak of Smoother progression, able to take finesse at third level, able to drop Prowess in Favore of a Greater Dex, which along with another freed feat means +1 ac and reflex
"Half-Kyton" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement DEX +4, WIS +4, CON +4, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 1, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, +8 hide, +8
move silent, +10 tumble
pre -> post subrace edits 8 str -> 8 14 dex -> 18 14 con -> 18 10 Wis -> 14 14 Int -> 14 16 Cha -> 16
all dex
with 10 dex in pre-LL and 10 in LL and 8 Great Dexterity feats and Wisdom artifact your level 60 stats are:
str 8 dex 46 con 18 wis 16 int 14 cha 16
Monk at 1, bard 2-12, wm 13-19, bard after
28 pts first level 7 per bard level 5 per wm level
take 4 intim at 5th level (costs 8 points) only disc on WM levels
25 perform by level 22
skills by 40 43 disc 43 conc 43 perform 29 pick pocket 43 tumble 43 taunt 34 umd 1 heal === 7x20=140 skill points from levels 41-60
from 41 to 60 max disc, conc, perform, taunt, and heal tumble to 60 can dump the extra points into heal
1 Expertise 1 Toughness 3 Weapon Finesse 6 Weapon Focus: Kama 9 Spring Attack 12 Whirlwind 15 Improved Critical: Kama 18 Ambidexterity 21 Curse Song 24 Epic Weapon Focus: Kama 27 Two Weapon Fighting 30 Improved Two Weapon Fighting 31 (bard bonus feat) Lasting Inspiration 33 Blind Fight 34 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity I 36 Armor Skin 37 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity II 39 Great Dexterity III 40 (bard bonus feat) Great Dexterity IV 42 Improved Expertise 45 Great Fortitude 48 Legendary Fortitude 51 Great Dexterity V 54 Great Dexterity VI 57 Great Dexterity VII 60 Great Dexterity VIII
Dodge (half-kyton) Mobility (half-kyton) Epic Spell Focus: Enchantment (from book)
Use Wisdom artifact for mind immunity, as well as +1 will and ac.
Spell Choices:
Cantrips: All
First: Grease Cure Light Wounds Identify Mage Armor Protection from Alignment
Second: Clarity Cure Moderate wounds Darkness Silence Ultravision
Third: Displacement Greater Magic Weapon Gust of Wind Keen Edge Wounding Whispers
Fourth: Cure Critical Wounds Improved Invisibility Legend Lore War Cry your choice (I take Dismissal)
Fifth: All
Sixth: Dirge Energy Buffer Ice Storm Mass Haste
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 21, 2007 17:12:47 GMT
Oh, and I officially dub the Half-Kyton version the Unchained Melody. Funky
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Post by kaldair on Jan 21, 2007 19:17:43 GMT
Hey Funky,
Just curious - why did you end up using the Half-Kyton instead of the Shard?
Thanks,
Kaldair
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 21, 2007 20:03:17 GMT
Because you can't make 7 wm by 20 with Shard. Funky
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Post by sinister101 on Feb 12, 2007 21:58:25 GMT
While useing pixie and wielding duel kama dont you lose 4 ab...is that worth 2 extra attack rounds? ~sinister
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 13, 2007 3:19:50 GMT
Yes, don't forget kamas are on a -3 rather than a -5 progression. ACs on monsters are low enough to still hit and crit regularly. Funky
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Post by borges on Feb 23, 2007 16:48:34 GMT
Because you can't make 7 wm by 20 with Shard. Funky You can use the Pixie feat progression, with a minor adjustment. Replace Toughness with Dodge (which you no longer get for free) at lvl 1, take a Great Dex at 31 as your bard bonus feat (since you get Lasting Inspiration for free), taking Toughness at lvl 39. Of course, I have been unable to test in the chamber due to an unfortunate lack of BUR subraces. On another note, the Half-Kyton build seems to be faring very well in the most terrifying Hells levels, despite max Fort and Will saves under 60 (not counting bard song, which if i understand correctly, still falls within the +20 cap). I'd love to hear how this is possible, since my latest builds are striving mightily to get all saves at 65+, at no small cost. Even if the answer is "play skill," that at least gives me something to shoot for.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 23, 2007 17:51:36 GMT
Because you can't make 7 wm by 20 with Shard. Funky You can use the Pixie feat progression, with a minor adjustment. Replace Toughness with Dodge (which you no longer get for free) at lvl 1, take a Great Dex at 31 as your bard bonus feat (since you get Lasting Inspiration for free), taking Toughness at lvl 39. Of course, I have been unable to test in the chamber due to an unfortunate lack of BUR subraces. Hmm, I think you are correct. I remember looking at the Shard build, and deciding against it, though now I just don't remember why. Could be the loss of the extra feat hurt too much, though loosing out on Shard speed was no fun either. Fort is 62, I updated the build to reflect the addition of the Legendary saves feats. They allow you to take GF and LF instead of GF and EF, for a total of +9 instead of +6. Funky
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Post by Grogbot on Mar 11, 2007 19:02:32 GMT
Hey hey there Funky
A quick question on both versions here ... how well do you go without Uncanny Dodge or its ilk?
I find my Bards (as well as Monks, Dex fighters and some AA builds) start out really well then turn to custard when they lose their Dex bonus in combat due to flat footedness and the like.
This may be more about style-of-play rather than build, but how do you survive without Uncanny Dodge? I find I have to splash some rogue or barbarian (or equivalently dwarven defender levels for stunty types) just so I can survive ...
Grog-the-flat footed
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