Dwarvan Warchantress !2 Bard , 27 DD 1 Monk

[Tonkers]

Ok this is just a tester and see if i can get some help and opinions on this quassiclass
I used Half celestial but i did test on Battlerager i think it would be nice to use Hound Archion or shard for the bonus str/dex and cha on both burs

Half Celestial Went Dex based
+6 wis +4 Cha with evo spell focus and Epic evo sf

Bard 1-10 DD 11-26 Bard 26-28 DD 29-39 Monk 40

Str 8 (8)
Dex 17 (17)
Con 15 (15)
Wis 8 (14)
Int 12 (12)
Cha 13 (17)

1 LOH
3 Dodge
6 Toughness
9 Wep Focus Mace
12 Skill focus Intimidate
15 Great Fort
18 Wep Finesse
21 Improved Crit (mace)
24 Epic Fort , Epic wep focus (mace)
27 Curse Song
30 Epic Prowess ,Armour Skin
33 Great Dex 1
34 Epic Toughness
36 Great Dex 2
37 Epic Toughness 2
39 great Dex 3
40 Take monk level max tumble , also trans book as most spells are trans related ie: gmw and keen

LL levels
42 LL luck
45 LL fort
48 Great Dex 4
51 Great Dex 5
54 Great dex 6
57 Great dex 7
60Great Dex 8

Skills points in Concentration , Discipline , perform and tumble

By 40 in test chamber managed to get dex up to 30
Saves were 29,31,27
ab 41/36/31/26
Ac 29

Only problem is with the bard levels i only manged to get to 4th level spells i would of liked to get to 6th but that would mean taking 15 levels of bard i think rather than 12 levels
on the bonus side at lvl 40 i obtained
Chant of battle -which gave me +16 enhancement
Chant of stone -dust to dust effect
Chant of Countering - Death of magic effect

I tried with battlerager and came out with near stats to this with a few exceptions the cha was lower but str higher could only get to 4th level bard spells again and was able to take a few extra feats because battlerager gives dodge and toughness as a free feat only it was str based rather than dex based
Plz tell me if i have gone wrong and where i would love to do this build but feel its needs alot of tweaking

[johannhowitzer]

Unless you're getting a high WIS bonus, why are you taking the Monk level? Bard gets Tumble anyway, AND UMD. Drop the monk level, wear some armor, take Bard at 40... and actually, you can now drop some DD levels for Bard 15 if you like, and maybe a level in another class, perhaps Paladin to boost saves a little with your CHA. Your 27 DD is not increasing DR any more than 26 would, and dropping to 22-25 levels only loses 3 DR, so you can easily spare the levels to use on Bard!

Bard 17 / DD 22 / Paladin 1 seems more like what you're aiming at. Would need an alignment change, but so would your Monk-splash build.

[Master Jaxx]

1 Monk is to get Evasion.

[Tonkers]

yes thats the only reason i took monk not for the ac bonus but to get the evasion that bards don't attain also with this build in the books it supposedly goes more for DD rather than bard unless i am reading it wrong maybe but the more DD seems better than the bard levels , is it that crucial i take more bard it will only give me up to 6th level spells which is ok and more bard songs if i take linger or extra music as a feat

[Kallan/ Kallana]

Why not go str based with this build and wear some armor since most of the spells you will be using will be buffs?
That way u get the STR bonus to Nat AC and physical damage immunity from having DD as control class.
Evasion is nice but I have to agree that you may be better served with a paly lvl to boost saves with CHA bonus.

[borges]

First, something is wrong with the starting stats, particularly CON and CHA. It looks as if you built with Human H-C, which of course won't work for this quasi. You need at least 11 CHA to start as a Bard, but because of Dwarf penalty you have to pay enough points to start at 13. After the H-C bonus, you should end up at 15 not 17. 17 CHA is a waste if you don't have a pally splash and can't cast lvl 6 spells anyway. As has been noted many, many times on these boards, you really don't want your stats to be odd-numbered because the bonuses only increase on the even numbers. So 15 CON and 17 CHA, not so good. As posted, your primary stat, DEX, also ends up odd. Re-work the stats so that they end up even.

About those spells... In my view, building a dexer bard without Ethereal Visage is suicide. Without a reliable source of conceal, you are going to get hit a lot, more than DD damage reduction can cover. In an unrelated note, Transmutation book won't help your GMW, only your keens. On HG, Enchantment is the relevant spell focus for GMW. Take your pick.

Finally, the feats are a bit off. First, no Blind Fight. Second, you should consider marking the DD bonus feats to avoid confusion. I'd change one Epic Toughness to Epic Prowess in any case, as there's no reason to take Prowess as one of your general ones when there are only a few good DD bonus feats available to this build (your CON is too low for the usual EDR fiesta). Also, move Weapon Finesse up as early as you can unless you have a DM pet or would like to use missile weapons for 17 levels.

Cheers, Perin

[cataclysmic]

Hmmm I agree with Perin on the Stats and the paly level would be good for saves though I am not sure once fully gear ed the saves will need a great deal of boosting if the relevant save feats are taken in LL levels. Saves of around 70 are completely unneeded imo, around 60 or so should be fine.

As for Blind Fight I can understand why you would need it in most mods but in HG it always seems like a complete and utter waste of a feat to me, once you get immortality not buying Pearls just seems cheap lol and if you are gunna go to Hell you will usually have a cleric to cast UEF for oyu and pearls in ya inventory cure blindness easily enough that you never actually NEED to be able to fight while blind. Save a Feat...Buy Pearls lol

[Tonkers]

jonmagnus3 said:

Why not go str based with this build and wear some armor since most of the spells you will be using will be buffs?
That way u get the STR bonus to Nat AC and physical damage immunity from having DD as control class.
Evasion is nice but I have to agree that you may be better served with a paly lvl to boost saves with CHA bonus.

Yes i would love to go str based with this but when trying with the battlerager it lowered my cha to get 6th level bard spells alot which meant i had to waste time putting points during leveling into cha to be able to get to 4th level spells rather than into my str , ok putting armour on although you do get heavy armour feat once you take DD levels is good but also dont know if that is going to interfere with the bard levels as the spellcasting is arcane spells so i may be mbest with medium armour the paly level is feasible i agree but the saves werent all that bad and onec immo with the right gear i can get them saves into their 60's so paly would be a waste to me or some others am sure as saves in their 70's is not really needed

[Tonkers]

borges said:

First, something is wrong with the starting stats, particularly CON and CHA. It looks as if you built with Human H-C, which of course won't work for this quasi. You need at least 11 CHA to start as a Bard, but because of Dwarf penalty you have to pay enough points to start at 13. After the H-C bonus, you should end up at 15 not 17. 17 CHA is a waste if you don't have a pally splash and can't cast lvl 6 spells anyway. As has been noted many, many times on these boards, you really don't want your stats to be odd-numbered because the bonuses only increase on the even numbers. So 15 CON and 17 CHA, not so good. As posted, your primary stat, DEX, also ends up odd. Re-work the stats so that they end up even.

About those spells... In my view, building a dexer bard without Ethereal Visage is suicide. Without a reliable source of conceal, you are going to get hit a lot, more than DD damage reduction can cover. In an unrelated note, Transmutation book won't help your GMW, only your keens. On HG, Enchantment is the relevant spell focus for GMW. Take your pick.

Finally, the feats are a bit off. First, no Blind Fight. Second, you should consider marking the DD bonus feats to avoid confusion. I'd change one Epic Toughness to Epic Prowess in any case, as there's no reason to take Prowess as one of your general ones when there are only a few good DD bonus feats available to this build (your CON is too low for the usual EDR fiesta). Also, move Weapon Finesse up as early as you can unless you have a DM pet or would like to use missile weapons for 17 levels.

Cheers, Perin

Nope did it with a dwarf H-C lol it gave me 11 on cha to start with so i put it to 13 which of course with +4 cha from h-c boosted it up 2nd this is not a dexer bard nor do i intend for it to be a dexer bard its a quassiclass mainly DD depending which way you go with a splash of bard with special features i chose to go more DD for the special items the DD gets more so than the bard way .
What i mainly meant with trans book is that the spells we have to pick for this build are mainly evo or trans seeing as H-c has evo included i chose trans to boost these spells although the DC is based on 9/10 of his str or dex modifier whichever is higher
I agree i would like to gain epic damage reduct that would be a nice bonus so i will redo the con to be able to recieve this , as for wep finesse i chose it that late as i wanted to get dodge and toughness first as you need it to gain access to DD along with +7base attack but also i wanted to gain the sf in int and wep focus early just to save gaining it later as you do have to have these before level 26
But thanks perin i do agree with some of what you have said am glad this is just a tester for the moment and not build it , it does need alot of work on