Post by unnone on Mar 27, 2007 7:24:30 GMT
Unnone's Touchless Archer
---------------
Ok. I recently put this build together in the Testing Grounds. I'm looking for criticisms on it. After screwing up two melee builds from mistakes and catching it at level 40, I decided I needed to step away from the assassin/sd builds. I
wanted to rebuild my very first char, an AA. I also wanted to open chests. That meant I needed Rogue levels. Finally, I
needed the ability to cast arcane spells. That meant either bard or wizard. As an elf, bard would give me an xp penalty. PLEASE let me know if there are any glaring errors or flaws.
Pros of this build:
-------------------
-No special subrace required
-50 Self-Conceal
-Epic Dodge
-Full AA
-Great Saves
-Doable without UR or BUR races
-Plenty of skill points to go around - you can open some locks, but Legendary Areas may require great items and perhaps sacrificing a couple save feats, methinks.
Cons:
---------------------
-No improved critical.
-Lose 3AB to 9 levels of rogue
-No monk speed
-Low Discipline
-No melee capability as stands (possible to modify at expense of saves)
-HP are not the best (@1000 at level 60 w/ con total of 26 after items)
-Lose out on a multiplier level by taking 4 extra non-AA levels.
-Dexterity is not maxed out. Potentially, Dexterity can rise to 62 from a base 20. This build tops at 58, with Great Dex 6.
-Feat progression is very tight. Yukio's free two archery feats only allow another pre-epic feat (level 1- 20).
This build is based on the Wild elf subrace; since I didn't have Yukio, I looked for races that didn't have a CON penalty. WIld elf not only didn't have a CON penalty, it had PB shot for free.
Yukio allows you to choose either bard or wizard with no xp penalty, as long as you don't mind fleas; other subraces would allow you to drop perhaps toughness or some dexterity feats to free up some options. There is a severe line between feats pre-20 and post-20. Nothing taken past 20 can be taken earlier than 20, so any extra feats freed up down there don't help very much, unless you want to melee a bit. I plan on carrying a sling and shield around for bad situations.
-=========================================-
-===============THE BUILD=================-
-=========================================-
Subrace: Elf - Wild Elf
Statistics:
(Char Gen Screen)
8 STR, 20 DEX , 12 CON, 14 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA
(After Racial Wild Elf Inbreeding Effect lowers intelligence and makes you hardier)
8 STR, 20 DEX, 14 CON, 12 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA
--
Progression:
9 ROG/1 WIZ/10AA/1 ROG/5AA/1 ROG/11 AA/2 ROG.
Class feats are in [brackets]. Stats are in {braces}, but all stats go to DEX.
Three important progession points.
a) The feats before 20 all have to be taken before 20.
b) Improved Evasion must be taken at Rogue level 10. It's a prereq for SC and Epic Dodge both. Epic Dodge needs Rogue
13, though.
c) Self Conceal requires Tumble 30, so that must be taken at some point before you take your first SC feat.
Feat and Levelling Order
----------------------------
1:Rogue 1 (take 9 in a row)- Luck of Heroes (Free: PB Shot)
3: | Weapon Focus: Longbow
4: | {DEX +1}
6: | Rapid Shot
8: | {DEX+1}
9: Rogue 9 - Blind Fighting
10: Wiz 1 - I chose Prot from Alignment, Grease, Mage Armor, Truestrike (why the heck not?). Dump 13 into spellcraft if
desired at this level.
11: Arcane Archer 1 (take 10 in a row)
12: | Toughness, {DEX+1}
15: | Great Fortitude
16: | {DEX+1}
18: | Iron Will
20: Arcane Archer 10 - {DEX+1}
21: Rogue 10 - [Improved Evasion] (!important!), Armor Skin
22: AA 11 (take 5 in a row)
24: | {Dex +1}, Great Dex I
25: | (AA 14) [EWF: Longbow]
26: AA 15
27: Rogue 11: Tumble, Hide to 30 (!important!); Great Dex II
28: AA 16 - {DEX+1} : (take 10 or 11 in a row, depending on when you want Epic Dodge. I sacrifice 1 point of UMD to get
it 3 levels earlier)
30: | (AA 18) [Great Dex III], IV
32: | {Dex+1}
33: | Self Conceal I
34: | (AA 22) [Great Dex V]
36: | {Dex +1}, Epic Will
37: AA 25
38: Rogue 12
39: Rogue 13: [Defensive Roll], Epic Dodge, Max UMD, Tumble to 40, do whatever else you want with skill points - enough to open locks and disable traps, but no Epic Skill Focus taken
40: AA 26: [Great Dex VI], {Dex +1}
-------------------------
In the test chamber, a Wild Elf at level 40 has:
HP: 410
STR: 8
DEX: 36
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 8
AB with standard bow: 55/50/45/40
Saves: F/R/W = 25/37/25
----
LL Feats:
Legendary Luck (+3 to all saves)
Legendary Will (+7)
Legendary Fortitude(+7)
Self Conceal II,III, IV, V
Legendary stat bonus: All dex: +10 Dex
Legendary Saves: +5 to saves (one every 4 levels)
Save Bonus: +6 from 12 to stats + 3 from LLuck + 5 from LLevels +20 from items = +34
Will and Fortitude get an additional +7, so +41/+34/+41
-----------------------------------------------------
Total Levels: Rog 13/Wiz 1/ AA 46
Final HP: 990
: 410 @ Lvl 40 (1 wiz, 26 AA, 13 Rogue, + toughness + 14 Con) [26*(d8+3) + 13*(d6+3) + 1*(d4+3)= 286 + 117 + 7 ]
+ 220 (20 more levels, Arcane Archer +14 CON + Toughness=(d8+2+1)*20),
+ 360 (60 *6 from +12 CON on items over nakedness)
= 990 HP, if my hacklogic is right.
Final Dex Max: 58
: 36 @ Lvl 40,
+ 10 from LL,
+ 12 from items
= 58
Final AB = ? no idea.
: 55 @ Lvl 40 with store bow.
+ 11 from 22 more dex
= 66,
+ whatever a decent bow gives, I assume (+10 to 15?)
+ whatever bonus 20 more legendary levels of AA gives to enchant arrow, if any.
Final Saves: 66/71/66
25/37/25 + 41/34/41 = 66/71/66.
Epic Dodge, Self Conceal V. UMD at 43.
-=======================================-
Notes on Build Choices:
----------------------------------------------------
Great Dex 7-10 was sacrificed at a tradeoff. EWF is equal to 4 Dex. Armor Skin is equal to 4 Dex. Any Reflex save feat is better than 4 Dex, but Legendary Luck is equivalent 6 DEX with added bonuses. By taking those three, I squeezed an extra feat out of the character.
Dodge was not taken, first by mistake, then later by design. After building this char, I started to freak out.
A conversation with a DM has confirmed that Dodge is indeed not needed as a feat for Epic Dodge and this char will not go to the cheaters cell.
A character that does not want to open traps or cast any spells can drop INT and boost Wisdom for additional +1 to Will
saves.
Yukio subrace gives additional 2 DEX, eliminates bardic xp penalty, and gives an additional pre-epic feat, at the cost of
2 CON and having fleas. This loss can be offset by dropping another 2 Gr Dex feats and adding 2 Gr Con feats, or by
living with 60 less hp. My first choices for this free feat would likely be (in this order) Weapon Finesse, Improved
critical or Lightning Reflexes.
I didn't pick improved critical. There are too many crit immune monsters for it. My damage increase would be less than 5% across the board. It's a 5% increase on damage for monsters I can crit on. I'd rather be able to use some other things, or have +4 on will saves.
-----------------------------------
I'm not sure which arcane class is better as a splash, wizard or bard. Since Rogue is my underlying class, UMD is already
covered. Basically, it boils down to which top end items I'd want to click, and whether or not I'd want an xp penalty.
There is another possible variant on this build, a Wraith Bard 1 or 2/SD 10/ AA 49 or 48. You would lose a lot of versatility to gain Slippery Mind and limited Shadow Evade. Perhaps someone else can run with that idea.
---------------
Ok. I recently put this build together in the Testing Grounds. I'm looking for criticisms on it. After screwing up two melee builds from mistakes and catching it at level 40, I decided I needed to step away from the assassin/sd builds. I
wanted to rebuild my very first char, an AA. I also wanted to open chests. That meant I needed Rogue levels. Finally, I
needed the ability to cast arcane spells. That meant either bard or wizard. As an elf, bard would give me an xp penalty. PLEASE let me know if there are any glaring errors or flaws.
Pros of this build:
-------------------
-No special subrace required
-50 Self-Conceal
-Epic Dodge
-Full AA
-Great Saves
-Doable without UR or BUR races
-Plenty of skill points to go around - you can open some locks, but Legendary Areas may require great items and perhaps sacrificing a couple save feats, methinks.
Cons:
---------------------
-No improved critical.
-Lose 3AB to 9 levels of rogue
-No monk speed
-Low Discipline
-No melee capability as stands (possible to modify at expense of saves)
-HP are not the best (@1000 at level 60 w/ con total of 26 after items)
-Lose out on a multiplier level by taking 4 extra non-AA levels.
-Dexterity is not maxed out. Potentially, Dexterity can rise to 62 from a base 20. This build tops at 58, with Great Dex 6.
-Feat progression is very tight. Yukio's free two archery feats only allow another pre-epic feat (level 1- 20).
This build is based on the Wild elf subrace; since I didn't have Yukio, I looked for races that didn't have a CON penalty. WIld elf not only didn't have a CON penalty, it had PB shot for free.
Yukio allows you to choose either bard or wizard with no xp penalty, as long as you don't mind fleas; other subraces would allow you to drop perhaps toughness or some dexterity feats to free up some options. There is a severe line between feats pre-20 and post-20. Nothing taken past 20 can be taken earlier than 20, so any extra feats freed up down there don't help very much, unless you want to melee a bit. I plan on carrying a sling and shield around for bad situations.
-=========================================-
-===============THE BUILD=================-
-=========================================-
Subrace: Elf - Wild Elf
Statistics:
(Char Gen Screen)
8 STR, 20 DEX , 12 CON, 14 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA
(After Racial Wild Elf Inbreeding Effect lowers intelligence and makes you hardier)
8 STR, 20 DEX, 14 CON, 12 INT, 10 WIS, 8 CHA
--
Progression:
9 ROG/1 WIZ/10AA/1 ROG/5AA/1 ROG/11 AA/2 ROG.
Class feats are in [brackets]. Stats are in {braces}, but all stats go to DEX.
Three important progession points.
a) The feats before 20 all have to be taken before 20.
b) Improved Evasion must be taken at Rogue level 10. It's a prereq for SC and Epic Dodge both. Epic Dodge needs Rogue
13, though.
c) Self Conceal requires Tumble 30, so that must be taken at some point before you take your first SC feat.
Feat and Levelling Order
----------------------------
1:Rogue 1 (take 9 in a row)- Luck of Heroes (Free: PB Shot)
3: | Weapon Focus: Longbow
4: | {DEX +1}
6: | Rapid Shot
8: | {DEX+1}
9: Rogue 9 - Blind Fighting
10: Wiz 1 - I chose Prot from Alignment, Grease, Mage Armor, Truestrike (why the heck not?). Dump 13 into spellcraft if
desired at this level.
11: Arcane Archer 1 (take 10 in a row)
12: | Toughness, {DEX+1}
15: | Great Fortitude
16: | {DEX+1}
18: | Iron Will
20: Arcane Archer 10 - {DEX+1}
21: Rogue 10 - [Improved Evasion] (!important!), Armor Skin
22: AA 11 (take 5 in a row)
24: | {Dex +1}, Great Dex I
25: | (AA 14) [EWF: Longbow]
26: AA 15
27: Rogue 11: Tumble, Hide to 30 (!important!); Great Dex II
28: AA 16 - {DEX+1} : (take 10 or 11 in a row, depending on when you want Epic Dodge. I sacrifice 1 point of UMD to get
it 3 levels earlier)
30: | (AA 18) [Great Dex III], IV
32: | {Dex+1}
33: | Self Conceal I
34: | (AA 22) [Great Dex V]
36: | {Dex +1}, Epic Will
37: AA 25
38: Rogue 12
39: Rogue 13: [Defensive Roll], Epic Dodge, Max UMD, Tumble to 40, do whatever else you want with skill points - enough to open locks and disable traps, but no Epic Skill Focus taken
40: AA 26: [Great Dex VI], {Dex +1}
-------------------------
In the test chamber, a Wild Elf at level 40 has:
HP: 410
STR: 8
DEX: 36
CON: 14
INT: 12
WIS: 10
CHA: 8
AB with standard bow: 55/50/45/40
Saves: F/R/W = 25/37/25
----
LL Feats:
Legendary Luck (+3 to all saves)
Legendary Will (+7)
Legendary Fortitude(+7)
Self Conceal II,III, IV, V
Legendary stat bonus: All dex: +10 Dex
Legendary Saves: +5 to saves (one every 4 levels)
Save Bonus: +6 from 12 to stats + 3 from LLuck + 5 from LLevels +20 from items = +34
Will and Fortitude get an additional +7, so +41/+34/+41
-----------------------------------------------------
Total Levels: Rog 13/Wiz 1/ AA 46
Final HP: 990
: 410 @ Lvl 40 (1 wiz, 26 AA, 13 Rogue, + toughness + 14 Con) [26*(d8+3) + 13*(d6+3) + 1*(d4+3)= 286 + 117 + 7 ]
+ 220 (20 more levels, Arcane Archer +14 CON + Toughness=(d8+2+1)*20),
+ 360 (60 *6 from +12 CON on items over nakedness)
= 990 HP, if my hacklogic is right.
Final Dex Max: 58
: 36 @ Lvl 40,
+ 10 from LL,
+ 12 from items
= 58
Final AB = ? no idea.
: 55 @ Lvl 40 with store bow.
+ 11 from 22 more dex
= 66,
+ whatever a decent bow gives, I assume (+10 to 15?)
+ whatever bonus 20 more legendary levels of AA gives to enchant arrow, if any.
Final Saves: 66/71/66
25/37/25 + 41/34/41 = 66/71/66.
Epic Dodge, Self Conceal V. UMD at 43.
-=======================================-
Notes on Build Choices:
----------------------------------------------------
Great Dex 7-10 was sacrificed at a tradeoff. EWF is equal to 4 Dex. Armor Skin is equal to 4 Dex. Any Reflex save feat is better than 4 Dex, but Legendary Luck is equivalent 6 DEX with added bonuses. By taking those three, I squeezed an extra feat out of the character.
Dodge was not taken, first by mistake, then later by design. After building this char, I started to freak out.
A conversation with a DM has confirmed that Dodge is indeed not needed as a feat for Epic Dodge and this char will not go to the cheaters cell.A character that does not want to open traps or cast any spells can drop INT and boost Wisdom for additional +1 to Will
saves.
Yukio subrace gives additional 2 DEX, eliminates bardic xp penalty, and gives an additional pre-epic feat, at the cost of
2 CON and having fleas. This loss can be offset by dropping another 2 Gr Dex feats and adding 2 Gr Con feats, or by
living with 60 less hp. My first choices for this free feat would likely be (in this order) Weapon Finesse, Improved
critical or Lightning Reflexes.
I didn't pick improved critical. There are too many crit immune monsters for it. My damage increase would be less than 5% across the board. It's a 5% increase on damage for monsters I can crit on. I'd rather be able to use some other things, or have +4 on will saves.
-----------------------------------
I'm not sure which arcane class is better as a splash, wizard or bard. Since Rogue is my underlying class, UMD is already
covered. Basically, it boils down to which top end items I'd want to click, and whether or not I'd want an xp penalty.
There is another possible variant on this build, a Wraith Bard 1 or 2/SD 10/ AA 49 or 48. You would lose a lot of versatility to gain Slippery Mind and limited Shadow Evade. Perhaps someone else can run with that idea.