Post by cathedralmaster on Feb 11, 2007 8:37:49 GMT
I first decided to put this build together after I saw Mish's Kareha in action. Mish very kindly provided me with the details - he basically went 20 monk, 13 ftr, 7 wm, using the ftr feats to make up for the lack of feats monks get and using the wm feats so that he'd have a better ab and an insane crit range (I'm pretty sure he also went dual rapier for an even larger range of crits). I was also very impressed by Fusa's and Groo's monks, both of whom were kind enough to answer any question I had about them.
Of course, the first thing I dropped was the fighter levels. Why? Because as theDomicron has noted, I'm addicted to paladin saves. If I can fit them into a build, I will. However, in this case I went blackguard - paladin would get me an xp penalty if I went something other than human and get me immunity to disease; blackguard would get me no xp penality, the saves since I was taking 4 lvls instead of 1, and a 1d6 sneak attack. By putting the blackguard levels prior to epic levels, I also hoped to boost my ab a little - the 10 attacks things was only something I learned about later.
The next big changed I made was dropping the idea of fitting self concealment into the build. Kareha didn't have it and Mish said that was his biggest regret with it, but there was simply no way to fit it in without sacrificing a ridiculous amount of dexterity or sacrificing good saves.
The next choice I made was going 5 shadowdancer instead of 7 weaponmaster - I asked Fusa what he thought about which was more important and it was his position that shadowdancer was more important than weaponmaster as weaponmaster would only get you a bigger crit range. This was good news as I didn't want to take some useless feats like WW and go for 13 intelligence anyway. Funky later advised me to drop the rapiers for kamas - the monk ab and attacks was more important. This later seemed even more logical when paired - if I wasn't going weaponmaster for the better crits, going rapier for the better crits didn't make a whole lot of sense.
A little playing around in the testing chamber and I came up with this:
"Half-Kyton" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement
DEX +4, WIS +4, CON +4, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 1, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, +8 hide, +8 move silent, +10 tumble
Race: Human
Abilities:
Str 8(8)
Dex 18(22)
Con 14(18)
Wis 14(18)
Int 8(8)
Chr 10(10)
Skills: Hide (2 ranks), Discipline, Tumble
Left Over: Concentration or whatever suit you
1. Monk - Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
2. Monk -
3. Monk - Weapon Finesse
4. Monk - Dex +1(23)
5. Monk -
6. Monk - Weapon Focus (Kama)
7. Monk -
8. Monk - Dex +1 (24)
9. Monk - Toughness
10. Monk -
11. Monk -
12. Monk - Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Dex +1(25)
13. Monk -
14. Monk -
15. Monk - Improved Critical (Kama)
16. Monk - Dex +1(26)
17. BlackGuard -
18. BlackGuard - Blind Fight
19. BlackGuard -
20. BlackGuard - Dex +1(27)
21. Monk - Epic Weapon Focus (Kama)
22. Monk -
23. Monk -
24. Monk - Great Dexterity 1(28), Dex +1(29)
25. ShadowDancer -
26. ShadowDancer -
27. ShadowDancer - Great Dexterity 2(30)
28. ShadowDancer - Dex +1 (31)
29. ShadowDancer -
30. Monk - Epic Dodge
31. Monk -
32. Monk - Dex +1(32)
33. Monk - Great Dexterity 3(33)
34. Monk - Armor Skin
35. Monk -
36. Monk - Great Dexterity 4(34), Dex +1(35)
37. Monk -
38. Monk -
39. Monk - Great Dexterity 5(36), Improved Spell Resistance 3 (no real choice there)
40. Monk - Dex +1(37)
------
41. Monk -
42. Monk - Great Dexterity 6(38), Dex +1(39)
43. Monk -
44. Monk - Dex +1(40)
45. Monk - Great Dexterity 7(41)
46. Monk - Dex +1(42)
47. Monk -
48. Monk - Great Dexterity 8(43), Dex +1(44)
49. Monk -
50. Monk - Dex +1(45)
51. Monk - Iron Will
52. Monk - Dex +1(46)
53. Monk -
54. Monk - Legendary Will, Dex +1(47)
55. Monk -
56. Monk - Dex +1(48)
57. Monk - Great Fortitude
58. Monk - Dex +1(49)
59. Monk -
60. Monk - Legendary Fortitude, Dex +1(50)
Your first thought might be: why all the save feats. The answer was I forget to factor the +6 you get from maxing the non-charisma save stats. Without them I computed saves of something around 68, 72, 65. With them, I think I've hit the more outrageous 74, 78, 71 which is a bit much even for the hells. I also think the ab is going to be a little low - so I'm probably going to drop some for either the last 2 great dexterity and/or epic prowess. I'm also thinking that improved critcal really isn't helping me much and maybe I should drop that for either one of the basic save feats (freeing up an epic or possibly two if I switch to the luck feats) or going for expertise which sort of worries me by it's absence.
However, by this point, I've decided I need feedback. Give me the truth, I can handle it - How badly have I screwed it up?
As to it's name - when discussing whether to df and fw our weapons before heading into Minauros, I noted I was taking 60 magic kb everytime I hit a hamatula, meaning 180 if I dfed and fwed. Funky noted that yes, it was a balance, increased damage meant increased risk - better damage overall meant there was no way in hell he was hitting the hamatulas.
Of course, the first thing I dropped was the fighter levels. Why? Because as theDomicron has noted, I'm addicted to paladin saves. If I can fit them into a build, I will. However, in this case I went blackguard - paladin would get me an xp penalty if I went something other than human and get me immunity to disease; blackguard would get me no xp penality, the saves since I was taking 4 lvls instead of 1, and a 1d6 sneak attack. By putting the blackguard levels prior to epic levels, I also hoped to boost my ab a little - the 10 attacks things was only something I learned about later.
The next big changed I made was dropping the idea of fitting self concealment into the build. Kareha didn't have it and Mish said that was his biggest regret with it, but there was simply no way to fit it in without sacrificing a ridiculous amount of dexterity or sacrificing good saves.
The next choice I made was going 5 shadowdancer instead of 7 weaponmaster - I asked Fusa what he thought about which was more important and it was his position that shadowdancer was more important than weaponmaster as weaponmaster would only get you a bigger crit range. This was good news as I didn't want to take some useless feats like WW and go for 13 intelligence anyway. Funky later advised me to drop the rapiers for kamas - the monk ab and attacks was more important. This later seemed even more logical when paired - if I wasn't going weaponmaster for the better crits, going rapier for the better crits didn't make a whole lot of sense.
A little playing around in the testing chamber and I came up with this:
"Half-Kyton" (secret Beyond UltraRare subrace) - no race requirement
DEX +4, WIS +4, CON +4, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 1, free feat: Improved Spell Resistance 2, free feat: Dodge, free feat: Mobility, +8 hide, +8 move silent, +10 tumble
Race: Human
Abilities:
Str 8(8)
Dex 18(22)
Con 14(18)
Wis 14(18)
Int 8(8)
Chr 10(10)
Skills: Hide (2 ranks), Discipline, Tumble
Left Over: Concentration or whatever suit you
1. Monk - Ambidexterity, Two Weapon Fighting
2. Monk -
3. Monk - Weapon Finesse
4. Monk - Dex +1(23)
5. Monk -
6. Monk - Weapon Focus (Kama)
7. Monk -
8. Monk - Dex +1 (24)
9. Monk - Toughness
10. Monk -
11. Monk -
12. Monk - Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Dex +1(25)
13. Monk -
14. Monk -
15. Monk - Improved Critical (Kama)
16. Monk - Dex +1(26)
17. BlackGuard -
18. BlackGuard - Blind Fight
19. BlackGuard -
20. BlackGuard - Dex +1(27)
21. Monk - Epic Weapon Focus (Kama)
22. Monk -
23. Monk -
24. Monk - Great Dexterity 1(28), Dex +1(29)
25. ShadowDancer -
26. ShadowDancer -
27. ShadowDancer - Great Dexterity 2(30)
28. ShadowDancer - Dex +1 (31)
29. ShadowDancer -
30. Monk - Epic Dodge
31. Monk -
32. Monk - Dex +1(32)
33. Monk - Great Dexterity 3(33)
34. Monk - Armor Skin
35. Monk -
36. Monk - Great Dexterity 4(34), Dex +1(35)
37. Monk -
38. Monk -
39. Monk - Great Dexterity 5(36), Improved Spell Resistance 3 (no real choice there)
40. Monk - Dex +1(37)
------
41. Monk -
42. Monk - Great Dexterity 6(38), Dex +1(39)
43. Monk -
44. Monk - Dex +1(40)
45. Monk - Great Dexterity 7(41)
46. Monk - Dex +1(42)
47. Monk -
48. Monk - Great Dexterity 8(43), Dex +1(44)
49. Monk -
50. Monk - Dex +1(45)
51. Monk - Iron Will
52. Monk - Dex +1(46)
53. Monk -
54. Monk - Legendary Will, Dex +1(47)
55. Monk -
56. Monk - Dex +1(48)
57. Monk - Great Fortitude
58. Monk - Dex +1(49)
59. Monk -
60. Monk - Legendary Fortitude, Dex +1(50)
Your first thought might be: why all the save feats. The answer was I forget to factor the +6 you get from maxing the non-charisma save stats. Without them I computed saves of something around 68, 72, 65. With them, I think I've hit the more outrageous 74, 78, 71 which is a bit much even for the hells. I also think the ab is going to be a little low - so I'm probably going to drop some for either the last 2 great dexterity and/or epic prowess. I'm also thinking that improved critcal really isn't helping me much and maybe I should drop that for either one of the basic save feats (freeing up an epic or possibly two if I switch to the luck feats) or going for expertise which sort of worries me by it's absence.
However, by this point, I've decided I need feedback. Give me the truth, I can handle it - How badly have I screwed it up?
As to it's name - when discussing whether to df and fw our weapons before heading into Minauros, I noted I was taking 60 magic kb everytime I hit a hamatula, meaning 180 if I dfed and fwed. Funky noted that yes, it was a balance, increased damage meant increased risk - better damage overall meant there was no way in hell he was hitting the hamatulas.
.
