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Post by mishimayukio on Nov 6, 2006 7:50:01 GMT
Subrace: Halfling Brownie Stats | Starting Stats(Subrace mod) | 60 with items | Strength | 6(6) | 18 | Dexterity | 20(28) | 68 | Constitution | 12(14) | 26 | Intelligence | 14(14) | 26 | Wisdom | 12(14) | 26 | Charisma | 8(8) | 20 |
Alignment: Lawful Evil 1 Monk Hide +4, MS +4 Bullheaded 2 Fighter Weapon Finesse 3 Fighter Ambidexterity Two-Weapon Fighting 4 Fighter (Dexterity +1) 5 Monk 6 Monk Hide +4, MS +4 Blind-Fight 7 Assassin 8 Assassin (Dexterity +1) 9 Assassin Great Fortitude 10 Assassin 11 Assassin 12 Fighter (Dexterity +1) Improved Two-Weapon Fighting Iron Will 13 Assassin 14 Assassin 15 Fighter Weapon Focus (club) 16 Fighter (Dexterity +1) Improved Critical (club) 17 Assassin 18 Assassin Skill Focus (Hide) 19 Assassin 20 Monk (Dexterity +1) Disc +23, Hide +15, Parry +23, Tum +23 21 Assassin Hide +1, UMD +24, Tum +1 Armor Skin 22 Assassin 23 Assassin 24 Assassin (Dexterity +1) Epic Weapon Focus (club) Great Dexterity III 25 Assassin 26 Assassin 27 Assassin Epic Prowess 28 Assassin (Dexterity +1) Great Dexterity IV 29 Assassin 30 Assassin Great Dexterity V 31 Assassin 32 Assassin (Dexterity +1) Great Dexterity VI 33 Assassin Great Dexterity VII 34 Assassin 35 Assassin 36 Assassin (Dexterity +1) Tum +15 Great Dexterity IX Great Dexterity VIII 37 Assassin 38 Assassin 39 Assassin Epic Skill Focus (Hide) 40 Assassin (Dexterity +1) Hide +19, UMD +19, Tum +4 Great Dexterity X Legendary feats and skills: Conc +3, Disc +40, Hide +20, OL +1, Parry +8, UMD +20, Tum +17, CrA +63 LSA Discipline Epic Skill focus (Discipline) legendary luck legendary will legendary fortitude legendary weapon focus club Blinding Speed
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Post by phalthallus on Nov 6, 2006 14:05:35 GMT
Oh great, a day after I started a wraith 'sin based on chainlink's build in the forum. It will be nice to compare though. I really like the WM part for a 'sin, increasing the chance for crit's by roughly 10% IIRC. But it will be nice to compare these two. No reason I can't make both.
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Post by starlandra on Nov 6, 2006 18:17:20 GMT
just tried this build (didn't see it here) as 7 monk 3 black guard 30 assassin and it is good though low on hitpoints. I can see once I get more levels (just made 40) and gear (and some subraces lol) that it will be a real fun build.
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Post by phalthallus on Nov 6, 2006 19:00:33 GMT
The problem with chainlink's wm build is a severe lack of decent saves, hp, and dualwielding ac. The +2 on threat range that WM gives is highly overrated, because this build's top AB is, in most LL areas, too low to crit even on a 12. And the X3 multiplier isnt really worth it because of dev crit. Going planewalker frees a ring slot for desert/ssiths and lets you get your Con as high as 34 (36 if pw-dwarf), for 1052 (or 1112) hp @ lv60. Also by not having to pick every WM reqs, you can boost your saves by taking the according pre-epic feats (your Will really needs it). Also note that having 3+ monk levels is pretty nice when you can manage to get a FoM - running like a lv40 monk is always fun. Well, Planewalker is UR, and therefore not terribly likely for me to get. I just obtained wraith, and was hoping to make use of that. Now it sounds like maybe that was a waste of....what's required for that subby... I agree the x3 multiplier is pointless, the main reason going WM is for the +2 crit range, adding 10% chance to critting. But if as you say the AB is too low, then that is maybe moot as well. Looks like this build with have 4 more BAB over the Dev Critter by chainlink (this one should get the max BAB of 20/15/10/5 compared to chainlinks's 16/11/6/1. I'm horrid at calculating saves, so I'll let someone else do that. HP's @40 for this would go: 4 Monk x 8 = 32 6 Ftr x 10 = 60 30 Ass x 6 = 180 Total = 272 Chainlink's: 7 WM x 10 = 70 3 Rog x 6 = 18 30 Ass x 6 = 180 Total = 268 Obviously the Wisdom modifier will add 6 mor AC because of Monk, right? So that would be quite helpful. So it seems that the BAB and probably saves (though I can't confirm that - like I said, I'm retarded in save calculations) would be the benefits of this (both builds get Evade), and the downside would be 10% chance less likely to crit (although that may not matter if in fact you have trouble hitting with the dev crit build). I wonder if chainlink could weigh in on this matter... (hint, hint)
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Post by mishimayukio on Nov 6, 2006 20:06:46 GMT
Build posted.
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Post by Yomi on Nov 6, 2006 23:37:13 GMT
Darn it, between you and Miles, I'm never going to get any time with my immos. ;D
Where do I send my licensing fees? Just drop off an item every 10 levels for your builds?
All kidding aside, thanks for posting. It looks good, and watching high levels assasins at work is a joy in Ssith.
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Post by Breña on Nov 7, 2006 5:07:28 GMT
I have a similar build (The Ultimate Iron Chef =0 ), posting it here seems more economical, so I will if anyone is interested.
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Post by chainlink on Nov 7, 2006 9:25:41 GMT
And the advantage of dualweilding would be what exactly as dev crit is only effective on your primary weapon? I'd stick with a single weapon and shield and get a better ab and ac (although you'd lose your monk ac a good UR shield would easily make up for this). I must admit my devcrit master was in no way optimised for saves and if I were going to look at it again I'd prolly pump points into Con and Wis rather than Str (losing cleave) to get better saves. Of course PW/Lycan and other UR subbys were not even a glint in Funkys eye when I created my devcrit master.
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Post by phalthallus on Nov 7, 2006 12:33:27 GMT
I toyed with this idea a little bit yesterday chainlink; I dropped str to put some points into con, but didn't put them into wisdom. It would help, and taking monk gives you cleave plus the ac bonus obviously. The problem I had going with WM instead of fighter was a lack of an 18-20 crit range weapon to focus in by the time I had to start taking my WM levels. I was hoping to kind of merge these builds, but that doesn't look likely now, unless you give up some BAB and take a weapon proficiency feat before taking weapon focus, pushing back your WM selection 3 levels, effectively lowering your BAB by 2 (you only get 5 levels of WM instead of 7 pre-epic). If only wraith gave just ONE of the WM requirements...
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Post by chainlink on Nov 7, 2006 13:44:09 GMT
Going Rogue/WM costs you a lot (no shield prof and lots of required feats) but 10% increase in crit chance is not to be sniffed at especially when this can instakill things. I have a base ac of 132 at 60 on Ghostly which isn't too shabby plus the 70% concealment but this gets dispelled far too frequently to be useful. I was talking to somebody the other day who pointed out you can use skulk to get full self conceal on an assassin with just the tumble and hide skills but yet again there's no option for WM in this build. At least not all assassins are created equal and there seems a fair degree of diversity for this class.
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Post by phalthallus on Nov 7, 2006 13:56:37 GMT
At least not all assassins are created equal and there seems a fair degree of diversity for this class. I agree. I think I'll end up building both, and then comparing them. I will start with Dev Critter because I just got the wraith subby, and hold off on this one until I get Planewalker. Not needing 2 rings is an awesome bonus, and I almost took Pixie over Wraith because of not needing the lev ring (but I obviously couldn't do the Dev Crit build with pixie).
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Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 7, 2006 16:32:49 GMT
The +2 on threat range that WM gives is highly overrated, because this build's top AB is, in most LL areas, too low to crit even on a 12. This just isn't the case. Even the last attack will hit on a twelve on virtually every creature currently in the mod, which is all that's required to benefit from the expanded range. Even the final boss' ac will only be 75 - the highest in the mod. Funky
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Post by azrael on Nov 7, 2006 17:23:55 GMT
I have a couple of questions? How is your discipline with this build? Would taking epic skill focus discipline be a viable choice instead of damage reduction? Also, I'm thinking since i already have a lvl 60 rogue and this build wont be able to disable any high level traps that I could just skip the open locks entirely and put those points into someting else (I'm thinking lore, as I bank often and would like a toon that can ID stuff)
Also, the wiki (I know , I know, its not perfect) says empty body is useable twice a day and how do you get 70% conceal? Isn't the extra 1% conceal per LL just for toons with monk as control class?
edit - nvm, just reread monk changes and see that conceal is +1 for every level over 20, I just thought that was for monk levels only.
edit again - ok I now see the concealment is coming from assassins improved invisibility. It all makes sense now.
One last question regarding open lock, are the dusty chests trapped, cause thats the only reason I see to taking open lock. I forget if they are trapped or not. I guess if they arent trapped it would be worth taking OL.
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Post by azrael on Nov 7, 2006 19:31:31 GMT
Hmmmmm does that mean that by recovering the trap you remove the trap, effectively "disarming" it? That would mean assassins can actually handle traps, just with a 10 dc penalty.
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Post by jillybean on Nov 7, 2006 20:58:10 GMT
Hmmmmm does that mean that by recovering the trap you remove the trap, effectively "disarming" it? That would mean assassins can actually handle traps, just with a 10 dc penalty. From what I understand, that is correct.
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