|
Post by chainlink on Sept 21, 2006 8:16:37 GMT
What subrace are you using as with an Illithid I managed to get five Epic spells (plus Necro and Evo LL focus) and Great Int 10, see my Mage-U-Like build for information. I used the book for Illusion focus as I wanted Starfire without messing around with the Illusion Feats. Also make sure you finish with your Int on an even number and the higher it is the better your dc will be.
|
|
|
Post by sumonelse on Sept 21, 2006 19:17:50 GMT
What subrace are you using as with an Illithid I managed to get five Epic spells (plus Necro and Evo LL focus) and Great Int 10, see my Mage-U-Like build for information. I used the book for Illusion focus as I wanted Starfire without messing around with the Illusion Feats. Also make sure you finish with your Int on an even number and the higher it is the better your dc will be. I'm using the Dwarf Derrzagon subrace as I have no secret subraces at all. Haven't found any yet. As for ending w/ an even number int I understand that. However, I only have legendary feats left and a 37 base int atm (49 w/ gear). This is due to my mistake w/ transmutation spell focuses and using the enchantment book instead of the evocation book. [[Legendary Feats]] ==================== LL Spell Penetration LL Spell Focus: Enchanment (GMW +14) (used book) LL Spell Focus: Evocation (don't have any evo focuses yet) LL Spell Focus: Necromancy Great Intelligence VIII (8) change to Spell Focus Evo Great Intelligence IX (9) change to Gr. Spell Focus Evo Great Intelligence X (10) change to Epic Spell Focus Evo Thus I would end w/ a 47 (59) int and Legendary spell focus in Evocation, Necromancy, and Enchantment as well as Epic in transmutation and conjuration. Otherwise I have to drop a Legendary spell focus to take 1 more GR. Int to make 48 (60). It seems to me I could go for the 50 (62) int but I'd get more DC from the spell focuses.
|
|
|
Post by whodat1 on Sept 21, 2006 21:33:30 GMT
I usually consider 60 the magic number, but 59 is not 60, so you do have an issue there. Consider the fact that if you buy or find an eye of venca that is 2 more int. Ive seen em sell for 200 mil, which is a good deal. Sorta like have your cake and eat it too!
|
|
|
Post by sumonelse on Sept 23, 2006 2:14:55 GMT
Okay, think I'll go w/ this: [[Legendary Feats]] ==================== LL Spell Penetration LL Spell Focus: Evocation LL Spell Focus: Necromancy Great Intelligence VIII (8) Spell Focus Evocation Gr. Spell Focus Evocation Epic Spell Focus Evocation My GMW will only be +13 but my offensive capabilities will be higher and I'll have an Int of 48(60). I'll still be able to learn the Epic spells of 5 schools as well. Now....about this Eye of Vecna?
|
|
|
Post by nathyrra on Oct 11, 2006 14:12:33 GMT
Hi, guys, i´ve made a build 40 wiz with a drow (my first wiz build at HG - don´t have any locked races yet), called Nathyrra Irenicus fruit of an affair between John Irenicus and a well-know drow (in honor of BG and NWN... ), also profiting of the high SR and glamour of the drow. Lets see the numbers: STR 8 (7) DEX 14 CON 15 (12) INT 17 (19) WIS 8 CHA 8 (10) [ ] ==================== Toughness Spell Penetration Greater Spell Penetration Empower Spell Maximize Spell Spell Focus: Evocation Greater Spell Focus: Evocation Spell Focus: Necromancy Greater Spell Focus: Necromancy Spell Focus: Enchanment
[[Epic Feats]] ==================== Great Intelligence I Great Intelligence II Great Intelligence III Epic Spell Penetration Improved Combat Casting Greater Spell Focus: Enchanment Epic Spell Focus: Evocation Epic Spell Focus: Necromancy Epic Spell Focus: Enchanment Spell Focus Illusion GSF Illusion ESF illusion Silent Spell
Book Conjuration
[[Legendary Feats]] PM ==================== Great Intelligence IV Great Intelligence V Epic Spell: Ward LL Spell Penetration LL Spell Focus: Enchanment (GMW +14) LL Spell Focus: Evocation LL Spell Focus: Necromancy
I prefer to get the GI feats as soon as possible, to get the extra skill points, so I place them always at the start of my progression tree. My doubt is the following: as a drow, my CON is very low... (12). Do you think its worth to get GI IV and GI V or to get 2 more points at CON? My final INT will be 19 + 3GI + 20 ATR + 12 ITEMS = 54, maybe with eye of vecna 56. This 2 extra feats would take it to 58 at lvl 60, or I could gain an extra 60HP...
What do you think? Any suggestions to the build, feel free to post. A great hug.
|
|
|
Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 11, 2006 16:32:11 GMT
Every 2 intelligence you don't put on your wizard you shave 1 DC off your spells. You've started at 19 intelligence which could have been 20 and have only gone to great intelligence 5 which could be 10.... That's 6 intelligence total....which is a really big hit on your spells (especially the insta death spells). The monster saves in the game assume you are using a +4 intelligence race and have taken all the great intelligence feats and are using the eye of vecna. So, a +2 intelligence race must do all they can to get their intelligence up. If you do things right your DC will only be 1 off max spell DC on spells like wail.
Some changes I would make....people may disagree but I would do this -get rid of -toughness -one of the spell focus in the build and use a tome instead to get your 4th focus at level 40 (saves 3 feats) -legendary enchantment
or get rid of -toughness -combat casting and improved combat casting and use defensive casting mode -legendary evocation -legendary enchantment
and take all 10 great intelligence feats
Tyran
|
|
|
Post by tyranlthixis on Oct 11, 2006 18:13:15 GMT
Probably want to also get rid of epic spell warding.....didn't see that one first time round
I'd put extend spell on the build instead
Tyran
|
|
|
Post by whodat1 on Oct 11, 2006 18:16:08 GMT
Your cons low and so is your int. Thats a short bus wiz.
I understand why your taking drow, I just don't like hg drow sub because of the con hit. I think a lot of people like to play drow because they like drow, not really the hg subrace stats that accompany. Regardless, consider dropping epic warding, or a spell school in exchange of rounding out your char better with int if you don't want to drop toughness/combatcast, although tyrans suggestions are excellent in light of everything.
|
|
|
Post by jillybean on Oct 11, 2006 18:21:19 GMT
I think toughness is too important for a wizzy to drop. I would personally drop: - epic warding - legendary focus enchantment (+14 gmw isn't that cool) - SF; Greater SF; Epic SF Illusion (get it from a book, I even have an extra lying around if you want to trade)
That way you would have the 5 feats needed to get to Great Intelligence 10 without losing HPs (which you are already lacking)
|
|
|
Post by nathyrra on Oct 11, 2006 18:46:23 GMT
I understood guys, good points. I can drop Epic Ward Spell, cause we can get it from staff, and even Legendary Spell Focus Enchantment, what gives me 2 more GI, making me 7, and stuck with my 12 CON. Only that, once I´ve started with 19 INT, doesn´t make sense to me take my GI to even numbers, only odd ones. That way, I can take 2 more to GI IX, but that would mean to drop one Epic Custom Spell. But what one? Evocation and Illusion rocks for pure casters, 'cause of the damage and, in the case of illusion, the 2 bonus knockdown rounds... Conjuration is just perfect to hold still the mobs while we finish them, especially in heavy crowded areas... Necro is a consequence of focusing in death spells and, in my humble point of view, responds with evo for more than half the usefullness of a caster... Enchantment gives me the Balor, wich is the only summon a caster can count on after the radiance golem... So, I'm with no good options left... I´m already taking the book of conjuration... so what to do? I'm stuck with CON 12 and INT 60 that way... price to take a race that I love, but that is messed up in HG. Combat Casting I already begun with, didn´t have to take that. Improved Combat Casting is very good, cause the mobs have the bad habbit to stick at your face when you´re casting, sometimes making you loose a spell. And I´m considering the option to change Silence Spell for Extended Spell, but I heard somewhere that in high level areas you keep being silenced all the time... didn´t that make the silence feat more useful?? And ty all for the tips.
|
|
|
Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Oct 11, 2006 18:47:17 GMT
Hurray for Drow!
Anyway, your Int is your life. Your DC is pretty key to everything. You want to maximize your Int. Really, you do. Great Int +10 will mean you will get more damage out of your evocation, and spells where a successful save means no spell effect will work more often.
My feats, in NO particular order, are:
Great Int +10 Legendary spell penetration (4 feats) Legendary sf Evocation (4 feats) Legendary sf Necromancy (4 feats) Epic Enchantment (from a Book) Epic Illusion (taken in LLs) Combat casting, improved combat casting Extended / Empowered / Maximized / Silent spell
As a drow, your con will always suck. Toughness is useful, but I find int is better - especially with Tenser's and Vampiric Touch out there. Of course, I'm more offensively oriented. Its up to you, really.
I like having combat/improved combat casting - I often stand in many critters, and I do NOT like incurring attacks of opportunity - as even with a 90% conceal, you still get hit. Plus, high level monsters get a stupid number of attacks anyway, why give them more?
I think there's no reason to get Leg Enchant for +14 GMW. Its not significantly better than +13 I find...and clerics have the +16 super-epic. Let them waste the feats. Another +2 on your enchant DC will get you absolutely nothing. Use it on more int.
I took Illusion because I like Starfire...if you wanted to use the 3 feats at legendary levels for another focus, you could do that. People often take Epic Transmutation for the wall-spell, with better petrification as a bonus.
|
|
|
Post by nathyrra on Oct 11, 2006 19:35:45 GMT
Really that 1 or 2 more to the spells DC are all that much important?!! OMG... I didn' t think that way, at first, ' cause after all, the mobs have to throw dice, and the server wouldn't make resistances so difficult to overcome, 'cause you throw away flexibility that way, forcing people to put all their efforts at GI to make the spells work, and losing other cool stuff that we could be picking... but once it is this way that it works, I can drop one epic spell (what would give me 3 extra feats), to take GI IX (as I said, theres no point in GI X in my case), and extend spell in addiction of still spell, what about now? That would take me to 62 INT (with eye of vecna) 19 + GI IX + 20 ATR + 12 ITEMS + 2 EYE What epic spell would you guys drop? Enchantment, Illusion or Conjuration? (I love them all, OMG...) And what would be more useful: silent spell or extend spell? Cya all. Good tips, delfestra, ty.
|
|
|
Post by irongolem on Oct 11, 2006 20:22:52 GMT
Better yet, nath, make a cleric or druid instead. You will find your spell selection a little less varied in most area's (SR being primary consideration), but you will find yourself participating more in party as a caster that way.
|
|
|
Post by Yomi on Oct 11, 2006 21:15:28 GMT
I suppose I should make my own build post, but it's not that unique. My pure wizard build.
Gnome Illithid. Initial stats: 18 int, 17 con, 9 str, 8 dex/wis/cha. Final stats: 23 int, 18 con, 6 str, 8 dex/wis/cha.
feats in order:
1-20: toughness, combat casting, spell penetration, still spell, max spell, greater spell penetration, SF necro, SF evocation, GSF evocation, GSF necro, empower spell
21-40: epic spell penetration, ESF necro, improved combat casting, ESF evocation, GSF illusion, ESF illusion, Great INT 1-7.
read enchant book
42-60: LL spell penetration, LL focus necro, SF transmute, GSF transmute, ESF transmute, Great INT 8, Great INT 9.
This results in a 64 INT, 66 after using an artifact. I have 5 epic spells. I can see dropping toughness for either extend spell or LL evocation, and 5 epics is squeezing other things out -- dropping one would allow both extend and LL evocation. I could also see an argument for dropping two points of starting CON for more 4 more dex to get reflex saves two higher, but I'm very dubious on that one.
It's vaguely bothersome in the middle levels to not have extend spell, but I don't miss it in the 40+ range. Yes, I sometimes have to recast damage shields, but this isn't a big deal -- they last pretty long. Just don't cast them 20 rounds before you're going somewhere. I probably am hurting more by missing LL evocation, which makes my meteors do a bit less damage averaged across a lot of mobs. But they work pretty well regardless -- just a tradeoff of getting that 5th epic (which doesn't even show up until level 54).
|
|
|
Post by chainlink on Oct 12, 2006 8:46:57 GMT
Whilst I bow to Delf's knowledge of playing mages (and its a huge amount more than me), I can't say I've ever missed having the extend feat as everything should be dead way before the time my buffs start running down. Whilst toughness does not seem like a mage-centric feat I'm sure its kept me alive the few seconds I need to finish off the last couple of nasties before I heal on numerous occasions. In a battle of attrition it would definitely be handy but I tend to treat my mage more like a nuclear firestorm.
|
|