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Post by Ralkain on Jul 21, 2006 15:50:04 GMT
Also note that taking Epic Weapon Specialization costs you an AB by forcing the Rogue level into pre-Epic. Not if he went 28 WM/11 Ftr/1 Monk, this configureation would also save him a feat. However, he may want to go with what he has, but replacing the 2 rogue levels with monk levels. That gives him a feat back since he'll get cleave for free and it will also give him deflect arrorw (nice feat against good archers). He could also take kama as one of his weapon of choices if he likes to up his attack or keep it lower with a better weapon. Ralkain
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Post by hfb on Jul 21, 2006 20:13:08 GMT
Greetings, Another bit: upon further reflection, rogue at first and 40th might be best. Max initial skill points, an additional level up to start and the possibility of rogue skills sufficient to open most anything until lvl 20 or so areas combined with max special skills (tumble and umd) at the tail end of regular leveling... Having the rogue level pre 21 does cost a point of ab, but it is balanced out by making it to lvl 28 wm (one ab is gained by having only one monk lvl and it being taken post-20). This is not at all an "ab starved" build from what I can tell, so in that light, one ab doesn't seem like a deal-breaker. IMHO for a str based ftr type, the only advantage offered by monk is only one level is req. for evade. Otherwise, neither wisdom mod to ac nor kamas are tempting. Wisdom mod is denied by shield/armor usage and kamas do not have the crits needed to really lay in the dmg. Oh, and I am a sucker for rogue skills *bows to Ralkain* Pleasure as always. Long time....good to see you popping in and out. Always with the "deflect arrows", I see how it is...ok, I love deflect arrows too, mostly 'cause it is so flaming cool!!! Cheers all, The Dancer
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Post by thedomicron on Jul 23, 2006 15:25:09 GMT
this may sound like blasphemy, but consider not getting great cleave. how often do you kill enemies in one hit by the time you're level 10? having cleave ought to be good enough imo, and it frees up another feat for you to use
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Post by hiryuu on Jul 23, 2006 16:14:50 GMT
Great Cleave is required for Overwhelming Critical. I agree, though, that Overwhelming Critical is the only reason to get Great Cleave, and it's not a very compelling one.
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Post by Ralkain on Jul 24, 2006 18:01:40 GMT
*bows to Ralkain* Pleasure as always. Long time....good to see you popping in and out. Always with the "deflect arrows", I see how it is...ok, I love deflect arrows too, mostly 'cause it is so flaming cool!!!
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Post by fusa on Jul 24, 2006 20:20:22 GMT
Its pie and chips, who wouldn't want free pie and chips . Ralkain work for Geicho?
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Post by mishimayukio on Jul 25, 2006 5:24:58 GMT
Its pie and chips, who wouldn't want free pie and chips . This made me lol.
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Post by dapperdave on Jul 25, 2006 5:54:46 GMT
Mmmmmm...me too - with lashings of gravy on top
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Post by chainlink on Jul 25, 2006 7:57:44 GMT
The only real benefit from Great Cleave is to get Overwhelming Critical with a scythe (if you have WM levels) as this actually adds a decent amount of damage to a critical, the puny damage addition from most other weapons renders it a waste of feats.
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Post by thedomicron on Jul 27, 2006 16:35:34 GMT
isn't overwhelming crit negated by the massive criticals modifier on weapons?
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Post by hiryuu on Jul 28, 2006 1:49:29 GMT
If the weapon has one, yes.
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Post by chainlink on Aug 4, 2006 13:18:54 GMT
Don't think that either of the two uber Scythes currently available have the massive critical modifier if I am correct?
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Post by cathedralmaster on Aug 4, 2006 23:41:48 GMT
Having experimented with a 2 rogue levels build (Mania Cath), I've found I have to agree with the Monk people - 2 levels of Monk would be a better choice.
The problem with the Rogue is that the thing it has going for it, the extra skills, though nice are pretty much useless once you hit lvl 40. There just isn't enough skill pts to make them effective. Pickpocket is a waste with armor check. Since every chest you'd want to open at level 40 has both a high dc as well as a perpetual trap, in order to make the lock pick a useful choice, you also need search and disable trap maxed (which means losing tumble). Hide and Move Silently are wasted for a tank - you can't afford to run away. UMD is pointless - all the equipment you'd want to use at lvl 40+ was basically made for you, there is nothing odd about my build that you'd need some kind of weird equipment for.
All the skills you'd find useful you can get with a monk. Add in the bonus feat you get with monk and the better choice becomes pretty clear.
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Post by fusa on Aug 5, 2006 0:18:22 GMT
umd is useful for using scrolls, gs can be a party saver in many areas, as well as mind blank, keen for db weapons, also some class restricted items offer buffs that can be helpful (epic wading for one) also greater ruin for a unrestistable spell. Also if you're class has umd, then crit immunity can be very useful in some areas.
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Post by Argon on Sept 5, 2006 18:20:09 GMT
Your feats could be: (base of 14 for levels 21-60 + 1 ftr bonus + 6 wm bonus = 21) GrStr 1-10, GrCon 1-4, EP, EWF, AS, EDR 1-3, and EWSpec. This option preserves str (ab and dmg) and provides for better defense (always good) at the price of ED and the Epic Tough feats from 30 ftr lvls. You may also wish to consider for your 1-20 feats (total of 12) Exotic, WM prereqs (6), Blind, Tough, IC Scythe, WF H.Flail, IC H.FLail) and then substitute GrCon4 (from above) for Weapon of Choice H.Flail to give you a bludgeoning option with minimal loss of ab/dmg (no EWF and no specialization). Cheers and happy hunting, The Dancer Came across this dilemma while thinking about a slightly different build, and noticed this one never really got a lot of feedback. Wondering if there was a prevailing opinion on what's more worthwhile for a tank, Damage reduction 1-3 (giving you 9/- damage reduction) or adding a second Weapon of Choice for bludgeoning? I'm assuming the damage reduction of 9/- is physical only, right? Because that's a little less valuable for a str tank, if you already have a decent % immunity coupled with 20/- reduction from equ. But still not bad, considering the alternative. Is having bludgeoning damage available "for crit-immune monsters" all that helpful? Personally, combat scrolls by so quickly I have a hard time reading and analyzing the logs to see how much physical damage monsters are soaking, then switching to a bludgeoning weapon, and then rechecking the combat logs to see if they have less bludgeoning resist than slash resist. Personlly, I tend to switch out weapons based on what KIND of damage monsters are vulnerable/immune to (fire, acid, magic, negative, etc.), and ignore the physical part. So I might hotkey 3 or 4 axes with different types of damage, but I've never tried switching between slash/bludgeoning damage before. Any insight on that aspect, anyone?
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