Giant of Torm - Gnoll Edition(32 Barb/6 CoT/2 Rog)

[tyranlthixis]

Once you upgrade to another tier you can reincarnate again within your tier. So you could do stinger to battlerager for free so long as you have battlerager on your subrace list. In order to go up to the BUR tier you would need 2 books (one to get the race and one to upgrade). You can also go straight to BUR from gnoll. You just need 2 book of that tier.

Another thing you'll have to get used to as stinger is if you relog you will relog as large size (your default size) as opposed to gnoll which always relogs as medium. So, to make sure you're getting all your attacks you'll need to use you resize ability if you relog.

[Deleted]

So two copies of the same book? Are there reincarnation time limits? I'll be 50 real quick here soon. Is it worth going to Stinger if I'll be 60 pretty quick too? Or your thoughts? Can the Gnoll build be successful through all te endgame stuff until I make the jump to Mael?

I've also gone Dire Mace, is that still the best weapon to be using or would you suggest another type? Speak specifically for endgame as I don't mind being weak leveling, I just want to be the absolute best I can be once I am at the end for raiding.

[tyranlthixis]

Yes two copies of the same book (use one to get the race and have another for the reincarnation). If you already have Stinger, you would only need one book since the one you used to get the race to begin with counts as the second. Worth going stinger?..... marginally. Gnoll is a pretty good race. That particular build will be able to do all the layers of the hells without much problems. What will limit you more is access to good enough gear to do said areas. As for weapons, you should use whatever double weapon you have access to. Dire mace is a good choice, but if you have one of the others that would be good too.

[Deleted]

At endgame are all the various weapons types equal with regard to stats and capabilities so that I would be at the top of my game specializing in any? Or would any specific weapon end up on top? Thank you very much for all the information. I'll plan on going straight to Mael I think. The requirements of which being:

Level 60
Two books of Mael

Anything else? Do you plan on expanding this build to 80 at any point?

[tyranlthixis]

In Hells bludgeoning still has an advantage. But, in Abyss bludgeoning isn't as great. In Aboleths slashing is the best type. I wouldn't worry about damage logs at this time. You're going to be doing a lot of damage whatever weapon you choose. If you have decent gear, you might want to consider wearing toyshop boots in most situations and fixing your AC with buffs (e.g. using the buff on the immortal helmet). The boots will give you an additional attack per round so long as you are wearing the boots. That will put you on par with some of the harper scout builds that gain two attacks per round twice a day for a limited time. One attack per round (continual) v.s. two attacks per round twice a day (limited duration). During the asmodeus fight (final battle of the hells) you may want to opt for boots that offer better protection. By this time you will probably have access to some bur options

The other thing that throws people off on melee builds is after your first Nessus win (Demi x 1) your performance will actually drop in deep hells. A 1X demi tank is a real liability to a party unless you have somebody to greater restore you. You have at this time the highest penalties possible, so your AB and AC go into the toilet. You'll see a lot of people go....!@#$#@#$ my character sucks. This is a perception problem though and not an actual problem. Once you get over this "hump" things start getting much better at 2X demi and beyond.

[Yojimbo]

I suspect he does but since the benefits of L80 are currently more marginal than previous levels I wouldn't worry about it plus we don't yet know much about the new area planned to know what Paragon feats are really worth investing in for those areas. If you look at my character list you can see I have toons which have been though all the layers of Hell at least twice and are no where near L80 so I wouldn't worry too much about that part. The weapon choice is really all up to you they all mostly balance out in the end so just use what you have access to or get what you have already taken feats for.

[tyranlthixis]

I think there will have to be "level 80" variants posted separately. There are a few peeps running around with level 80 characters but it is really a ton of XP and time invested.

The other thing is the dust has not settled. It is really too early to be giving out advice on paragon feats especially on melee builds. There could be nerfs, new feats added, and shifts in how tanks are built.

[Deleted]

How much do Mael books usually go for or what is a good price point or them so I know what's a steal, or what's not worth investing in, etc. Any advice there?

[tyranlthixis]

They go for under one billion. Anything less that half a billion would probably be a good deal. Hopefully you find your own eh?

[Deleted]

At what point does gold start flowing quick enough that that's a realistic price for me? Lol

[Yojimbo]

Most LL runs net you good money most of the time.

[Deleted]

My access to gold has changed dramatically. Is Mael the best subrace for sure with this build Tyran or what ate the top three choices so I can have an idea. My level and gold access maker able to purchase these anytime now. So the information would help a ton. What's your first, second, and third choice for BEST option for this build as a BUR?

Thank you!

[tyranlthixis]

Well "top 3" depends on your build. Maelephant work with the build as is. It allows you to get all the skills and focuses to make gearing for skills easier. Now if you were able to get Kolyrut it may be better to do blackguard/fighter (2/6) which is basically the same build. You have to look at favored classes when you are adjusting the build because there really isn't a big power difference between the different barb class combos. There is perceived one but its just a perception. The truth is they're all pretty powerful. You always end up giving up something and gaining another thing. Some are better with paladin others with blackguard and still others are okay subs for the build as is. Howler is a pretty good substitute and you won't look like a stinking elephant or an one arm freak machine ....and its probably cheaper to obtain than Mael since there is no class competition for that race.

[Deleted]

I've gone for the Howler. Would you be able to help me build my toon around that BUR with the stats and feats it gives me please?

[tyranlthixis]

The below build would be almost identical to Maelephant. There may be some slight save differences. I didn't do the math but they should add up around the same. It doesn't have greater weapon focus but then again it does not need the AB for any current area. You start off with 2 higher strength than Maelephant and you convert those to into ESF Intimidate and ESF Taunt so you can get those skills high enough to effectively use them.

Your skill profile is going to be the same as your Gnoll character since you lose a skill point as dwarf compared to human. You could lower your Dex to 14 and raise Int to 16 if you feel you need to, but the extra dex will make you more resistant to dex checks. I'll leave that decision up to you. You CAN fix your skill situation in paragon levels to some extent. At 2X demi + Asmo Helmet (preferred artifact in this case) you will be at.... 36 dex which is plenty for a non uni strength tank at level 60. Keep your AB high for now until we get a sense of how much you'll need for Elder Evils. In the mean time use that extra AB for power attack and the occasional non focused weapon use for max damage output.

Blindfighting is gone unless you pick up a blindfighting book in Minaros. There are other books (e.g. DIsarm) so you may want to use those instead. You will need to keep your listen > 60.

Some may argue that you really should abandon taunt and intimidate and terrifying rage all together and just go for unitank. Know this with 100% certainty. You'll miss out on some fun Barb edits in the future and you'll never be anything but a damage per second tank if you do this. The future is boring! The below build is a middle of the road approach to future growth..... 32 barbarian levels is going to get you the entry level requirements for barb edits and investing in all three rages AND giving yourself the skill bumps to use them effectively is going to allow you to use whatever edits and gear the future hold for you.



Base Race: Howler (Dwarf)
Barb 15/COT 6/Barb 17/Rogue 2

Str 16(22)
Dex 16
Con 14(20)
Wis 8(5)
Intel 14
Char 8

Stat selection while leveling: All Strength

Feats
Free:Weapon Prof (Exotic), Toughness, Dodge

1st Level
Blooded (will allow you to take tumble as class skill in LL with Legendary feat)

Pre epic Feats
Heavy Armor
Weapon focus (weapon of choice)
Improved crit (weapon of choice)
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave
Ambidex
Iron Will

Epic Feats (Take the Great strength feats during regular feat levels else you'll run into problem later)
ESF (Intimidate)
ESF(Taunt)
Two Weapon Fighting
Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Overwhelming Critical
Thundering Rage
Terrifying Rage
Armor Skin
Epic weapon focus (weapon of choice)
Epic Prowess
Devestating Critical

Legendary Feats
LSA (Tumble)
Legendary weapon focus (weapon of choice)
ESF Listen
Mighty Rage
Legendary Will
Epic Will
Epic Reflexes