|
|
Post by tl on Mar 2, 2010 8:47:34 GMT
I think it's unfortunate that there are a lot of exciting sub-races that never gets used, Treant, One-eyed, Skunk, and many more. Is it not time to do something about it? There are lots of talented builders who need challenges :-)
Everyone is very focused to maximize all builds - and it is obviously a goal in itself. But a character's success depends more on player skill and experience. It is my experience that the most fun builds are not necessarily the most powerful. It is rather those who both have some strengths and weaknesses and some rough edges - which might even have some similarity to real people or characters as we know from books and the like.
Was it not time that somebody took the initiative to get some of the lesser-used sub-races on the track ... perhaps with some funny, surprising or crazy builds perhaps with a certain edge to it?
Maybe even a competition?
Sincerely, Torben
|
|
|
|
Post by dodrudon on Mar 2, 2010 8:48:58 GMT
No.
|
|
|
|
Post by gren on Mar 2, 2010 9:34:08 GMT
Had a very successful One Eyed strength assassin until I picked up a Juggernaut.
|
|
|
|
Post by Torin on Mar 2, 2010 9:58:05 GMT
Treants make passable Pariahs for an UR Subby:
+3 con
The annoying slow speed is overwritten when becoming a Pariah
The -4 to dex can be ignored since dex is set to a fixed value with Pariah status.
|
|
|
|
Post by kratlin on Mar 2, 2010 10:23:50 GMT
Whilst I sympathize with the sentiment of this post I cannot see that it is ever going to happen. Most people don't really work this way on this type of server, there are a couple of exceptions I am sure.
When push comes to shove you can make a superior character with a BUR race and once you have one you are only really proving a point by making a lower tier toon. If you can play well with a UR toon then you can play even better with a BUR one.
Its a bit like saying 'I am going to use this +10 Longsword because it looks cooler than the +15 version of the weapon' - yes you may look cooler but you are less effective.
I have a great fun paladin tagged to Malad which is made with Chaos Gnome but really she would be much better with a BUR race. She may or may not be able to make Demi one day but I know I could build her better now and I would have used another race if I had had it available.
I did suggest once that I thought UR/Secret races should be made 'different' rather than 'lesser' and who knows maybe things will change in 3 days but I would not hold ya breath, I believe there are alot of other things higher up on the Devs agenda. It would be alot of work to redo and rebalance the lower tier races, thats assuming they even feel it is necessary.
Kratlin
|
|
|
|
Post by MightyKhan on Mar 2, 2010 12:25:53 GMT
Skunk speaks only animal unlimited stinking cloud at CL = character level * 2 and perhaps I'll give this a try: unconventional building sounds like a challenge with a nice funfactor too. |
|
|
|
Post by CataclysmicDeath on Mar 2, 2010 13:08:38 GMT
Oh I dunno I think the UR Subraces get used a fair bit, it is more the Secret Subs that are underused.
I know I have a 2xDemi Kurai Staffmaster that I love and Delf has a few Drow builds, or did, I don't know if they got reinc'd to higher tier subraces and my wife is currently running round hell with an open subrace Zen Ranger.
There are also a couple of others that have excellent builds using Rare or Open Subraces, but there isn't many of them these days and it is a shame since some of them actually look pretty kewl.
Would be nice to see them used more often.
Cata
|
|
|
|
Post by Ford Prefect on Mar 2, 2010 14:49:19 GMT
Treants make passable Pariahs for an UR Subby: +3 con The annoying slow speed is overwritten when becoming a Pariah The -4 to dex can be ignored since dex is set to a fixed value with Pariah status. They do pretty well as druids actually. I've demi'ed my Treant several times, and while he's not the only druid I play, he's by far the coolest looking one. I did use a speed arti on him as soon as I scrounged one up, and that combined with the small form (I usually stay big right up until we portal to whatever layer of hell we're working on) make him decently zippy. Over all though, I do agree with the sentiment that Secrey and UR subbies are a bit underrepresented, but it is the natural progression of things to use more and more powerful races as they become available to you. |
|
|
|
Post by Yojimbo on Mar 2, 2010 18:03:57 GMT
We could do something for each sub-race tier have multiple criteria for for contests. Not sure yet how to flesh it out fully but it could be fun. Bizarre builds and under apreciated subs gettin some love.
|
|
|
|
Post by simpetar on Mar 2, 2010 22:43:51 GMT
Bizarre builds and under apreciated subs gettin some love. My Satyr bard is ready for Cania. Oh, and I am pretty sure he is the very first Satyr who conquered the madness of the Eldest ;D simpetar |
|
|
|
Post by MightyKhan on Mar 4, 2010 11:30:09 GMT
|
|
|
|
Post by darc on Mar 4, 2010 22:27:05 GMT
I started several such builds: Goblin, HobGoblin, Bugbear, Half-Ogre, Wraith, Shade, to name a few.
They perform very well pre LL and were intended as Xul/Lllolth/Immo run helper characters. But the new tagging system nerfed that idea. I may keep them for Myco. Uro. Sissy, Thids helpers if I ever get them high enough. But that's become a low priority now.
Hells (and from what I hear Abyss - need more than 96 ab to hit what?) are hard enough with BUR races and BUR gear, I don't see why you'd deliberately handicap yourself with a lesser race (and therefore usually a lesser build) unless you are a very top tier player. If you know all the spawn points and all the immunities and all the mob vulnerabilities you can afford to run a toon that is weaker and leaves less room for error, basically because you make less errors. But all the people I know in that calibre have almost exclusively BUR builds that are only possible with BURs.
If you want to see more of the lesser used races it will probably have to start with the new players.
|
|
|
|
Post by CataclysmicDeath on Mar 5, 2010 0:20:35 GMT
We will just have to agree to dissagree there Darc, I never have and never will see a build made with nething less than a BUR Subrace as a lesser build.
Nor do I see using lesser tier subraces as a handicap.
Cata
|
|
|
|
Post by dodrudon on Mar 5, 2010 1:30:07 GMT
But it is, by definition, weaker and a handicap. Given the same build with a BUR vs an open subbie, the *potential* DC (for instance) is lower. It's like playing Hell but always shackling to L57. Of course, that's a gross generalization, since I don't know of any subbies that are *strictly* better than another. However, the relative benefit of, say, +4 Hide, is less than Epic Skill Focus Hide.
Whether that handicap actually matters in the long run... doubtful. But I like any advantage I can get.
|
|
|
|
Post by darc on Mar 5, 2010 17:55:53 GMT
I never have and never will see a build made with nething less than a BUR Subrace as a lesser build. Nor do I see using lesser tier subraces as a handicap. Yeah, but I don't know you  And you're a habitual disagree-er. ;D There will always be someone (or even a few someones that will say, "Not me." But if it were possible to query the db for all characters sorted by race and sub sorted by level I'd bet some money that most 60's are BUR. But since I don't have that data my opinion is entirely subjective to my experience and unsubstantiated. Take it for what it's worth. |
|
And you're a habitual disagree-er. ;D