Doppelganger DPS Tank?

[Risen_Sorcerer]

What can I build with doppelganger that will have the greatest DPS tank possible on this server? I currently have a shade sorcerer at 40 and will be finding a doppelganger soon I hope to make a custom appearance toon. I was thinking barbarian, paladin, QS monk or something of the sort. What do you guys think?

[desocupado]

Dopple, Try my shifter build, Cunning Shifter Undead shape - Risen lord and Humanoid - Lizardfolk have great dps potential.

Well, the best way to get DPS on a tank is to go Barbarian with Harper scout/WM splash OR play a staffmaster

[the1kobra]

QS monk for sure. Doppels get -2 STR and +5 WIS, so you'll want some form of intuitive attack character. This works best with quarterstaff and monk. You could go staffmaster, something like 17/22/1, though keep in mind doppel has favored class druid so it will limit your multiclassing ability, unless you want an XP penalty. Other option is of course, going with a staff monk.


You have a few options. I'd highly recommend going the intuitive attack route though.

The following builds are all intuitive attack QS builds.

25/8/7 Monk/CoT/WM. CoT gives some nice bonus feats, especially for WM prereqs. You could use fighter instead of CoT, in fact it will be better, 1 more feat and gives the ability to take it earlier, possibly raising BAB. Fighter gives doppel an XP penalty though.
31/2/7 Monk/Blackguard/WM, feat tight, hits hard, no XP penalty.
36/2/2 Monk/CoT/BG, No XP penalty, no huge crits, you'll have an abundance of feats though, so you'll have solid saves, AB, and AC.

17/22/1 Wiz/WM/Monk, staffmaster build, XP penalty, gets some nice quasiclass bonuses.

Choice is yours, of course. But any of these should work.

[desocupado]

Keep in mind that while a Intuitive attack build has good AB/AC, it will suffer greatly against Str and Dex checks... So I'd recommend a tank shifter instead.
Dopple is perfect for shifters.

[Risen_Sorcerer]

I like the Monk/BG/WM option. What would a build like this look like? Rather it be STR based with a decent wisdom for AC....what do you think?

[Shakua]

I play a full champion of torm doppelganger . Its a dexer that dishes out just as much damage as most strength tanks do. 8 attacks per round with dual katanas , over 140 ac with no special gear.

8 monk, 2 black guard, 30 cot - no exp penalty , great defense

For an idea on stats, heres a link to my dopplegangers I play. Take in consideration these have not been updated with the new paragon stats or +16 gear, so stats are even higher now.

highergroundpoa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Tavern&action=display&thread=19396

[Risen_Sorcerer]

How would you build the 31mnk/2bg/5wm with qs or a 30mnk/5hs/5wm? that sounds interesting....

[Risen_Sorcerer]

Here's what I got for 30mnk/5wm/5hs!

Human Doppelganger STR16 DEX14 CON08 WIS15 INT14 CHA8
(After Subrace Edits:) STR14 DEX14 CON10 WIS 20 INT14 CHA6

15monk/5wm/14monk/5hs/1monk

Not sure on skills maybe disc, listen, tumble, parry, craft weapon, craft armor?

01: Strong soul, dodge
03: Mobility
06: WF Quarterstaff
09: Expertise
12: Spring Attack
15: Whirlwind Attack
18: Imp Crit Quarterstaff
21: G Str 1
24: G Str 2
27: G Str 3
30: G Str 4, EWF Quarterstaff
33: Iron Will
35: G Dex 1
36: Armor Skin
39: (Epic Save Feat), G Dex 2
40: Epic Prowess
42: LWF Quarterstaff
45: Hardened Soul
48: (Epic Save Feat)
51: G Str 5
54: G Str 6
57: G Str 7
60: G Str 8

What do you think? Final str of 56 with 14s, str of 62 after double demi and 16s, dex of 36 after double demi and 16s, what do you think? Final ac and ab not sure?

[the1kobra]

For 31/2/7 Monk/BG/WM...
Pre-epic: 12/2/6 Monk/BG/WM

Human Doppelganger
Stats:
14(12)/14/14(16)/14/14(19)/8(6)
Put all into Wisdom
Feats: Take in order
Pre-epic(8): Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus Quarterstaff, Expertise, Spring Attack, WW Attack, Intuitive Attack, IMPR Crit QuarterStaff
Epic(7+2M): Armor Skin (Monk feat), Epic Prowess (Monk feat with HGE, I think), Epic Weapon Focus, Great Wisdom 6
Legendary: LWF Quarterstaff, Great Wisdom 9, Greater Weapon Focus Quarterstaff, Blind Fight, Zen Archery
Ending stats:
12(24)/14(26)/16(28)/14(26)/48(60)/6(18)
Skills:
4 Intimidate
5 Hide
MAX discipline
MAX Tumble
MAX Listen
MAX Parry
MAX Craft Weapon
MAX Craft Armor
Remainder into concentration


Saves(L60 and +12 gear): 61/60/74
AB: 17+10+15+8+1+20+25+2(Craft Weapon) = 98
AC(+12 gear, BURs): 10+12+2+6(monk)+8(dex)+25(wis) + [15(armor)+17(nat)+17(deflection)+20(dodge)] +2(CrA) = 134


It's got all the bases, main thing this character needs to worry about are STR and DEX stat checks, which will cause some headaches. If you get this character demied I'd reccommend getting the asmo belt ASAP. Paragon feats should definitely include PSF Qstaff, Paragon Anchoring, Paragon Balance, Paragon of Stability, and likely 2 of the environmental feats.

The last 3 feats are customizable, but I thought they'd be best as they were. Means you can use shurikens in a pinch. Could also use them for great-dex feats, it might make the dex checks more manageable.

[Risen_Sorcerer]

Did you get to look at my build?

[the1kobra]

Stats are: (I assume L60 and +12 items):
42/16/10/14/20/8
54/28/22/26/32/20
AB(L60 with +12 items): 16+10+15+7+1(wm)+20+22(str) = 91+CrW

AC(BURS + Strongheart): 10+12+2+6(Monk)+9(dex)+11(wis) + [15(armor)+20(nat)+17(deflection)+20(dodge)] = 122

My main concern with the 30/5/5 build is that WM seems a bit problematic, since you miss out on Ki Critical, and with a Qstaff you really want the extra 2 threat range. I take it on the wisdom based version because they can't easily opt for devastating critical. For STR build though, you can. You can easily go 31/4/5 Monk/Blackguard or CoT/Harper Scout, and get Devastating critical hit. You'll save on feats easily, saves too, and get 1 wider crit range. You could opt to get Dev crit on your current setup, but it's hard on an already feat tight build. It's why I went BG on mine, so you didn't have to worry about saves feats.

If you want to keep the WM/HS combo, I'd recommend going 25/10/5 Instead. 10 WM gives +1 AB, and more importantly 7 WM gives +2 on the threat range, and on a 20x2 weapon you'll probably want that. It costs you a feat, 1 AC, and some speed, but you should be able to manage.

If you want to keep HS, which gives the boots and +2 attacks, I'd recommend opting to ditch WM for CoT or BG, CoT gives bonus feats and BG gives Charisma saves, either should work though. Grab DV crit if you want to keep a STR based character. It will give you a total threat range of 17-20X3, which while not great, isn't bad either. WM 7 will give 16-20X3... having both WM and DV crit will give 16-20X4.

Edit to Add: I don't think you'll be able to get DV Crit with WM and HS, you simply won't have the feats available, not on doppel anyways. With koly or half kyton you might be able to get away with it, but eh...
For what you're looking for though, I'd go 31/4/5 Monk/BG/HS, grab DV crit, should function like what you have but better.

[simpetar]

Apr 3, 2012 19:04:15 GMT Risen_Sorcerer said:

Did you get to look at my build?

10 base con will give you some troubles. Monks are luckily immune to effects of many checks, but not all. I suggest that you use Con artifact at least.

You will want at least some concentration. Again, monks with their full mind immunity have an advantage, but being chain-KDed or disarmed is bit annoying. 20-30 hard points should do.

Keep in mind that HS has access to cross class UMD in LLs. It is quite expensive (giving up another combat skill), and low charisma does not help much either, but if you can read lvl 9 scrolls, you will get lot more flexible. That is, at least until you can place your hands on Styg shop rods.