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Post by vorshlumpf on Apr 5, 2012 4:45:45 GMT
Hi everyone, My first immortal has all the joyous mistakes of someone new to this server, but I'd like to maximize her effectiveness anyway. I could use some advice for Feats and Skills. Since this character is Hard Core, there's no reincarnation to fix anything. Race: Drow elf (female) Class (level): Cleric (45) - yup, no splash Feats TakenSpell Focus up to Legendary (Divination) Spell Focus up to Legendary (Evocation) Spell Focus up to Epic (Enchantment) Metamagic (Extend Spell) Spell Penetration up to Epic Great Wisdom I - VII Feats to Take (5) Required: Legendary Spell Penetration Under Consideration: - Great Wisdom VIII - X - Legendary Spell Focus (Enchantment) - Legendary Spell Focus for school I read a tome of knowledge for - Metamagic (Empower Spell) - Epic Spell: Greater Ruin I was originally thinking to maximize my WIS, but that leaves only one feat for other stuff. I could probably live without LSF (Enchantment). However, I've come to realize that Necromancy is pretty important, so if I manage to read the tome for it, then I could take LSF (Necromancy). Originally I was thinking of going for the Transmutation tomb for Instruments of Faith. Thoughts? Skills to Take (98) Conc (currently 48): I'm maxing this for sure. That's 15 more points. Heal (currently 33): I'd like to max out Heal, but I'm not 100% sold on that idea. If I do, that's 30 points. Lore (currently 40): Is there a point to maxing out Lore? The only high-level spells I know of that use it are Firestorm and Word of Faith - and I don't use those too often. Splc (currently 33): If I don't go for Greater Ruin, I don't see a reason to continue putting points here. Other skills under consideration: Craft Armor, Parry (although I have the crit immune ring),
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Post by buddhamind on Apr 5, 2012 5:14:47 GMT
IMO go with Greater Ruin, Great Wisdom 8-10, read a Necro book and get LSF: Necro. That is better for your own spells. Then start practicing your explanation for why you don't have IOF.
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Post by vorshlumpf on Apr 5, 2012 18:38:25 GMT
Thanks for the suggestion, buddhamind! If I go that route, then it would look something like this:
Level 48 - Epic Spell: Greater Ruin Level 51 - Great Wisdom VIII Level 54 - Great Wisdom IX Level 57 - Great Wisdom X Level 60 - Legendary Spell Focus (Necromancy) [possibly taken earlier when I get the tome of knowledge]
Conc 63 Heal 63 (since this helps with Cause Wounds spells) Splc 50 And 36 skill points left over (Lore? CrA?)
I like the look of that. I was originally tied to Trans and IoF because I like being a support player, buffing and healing etc, but I think I'll have more fun with Necro (do Mass Cause Wounds spells have any place in Legendary Runs?). Plus Eternal Return and Miracle seem like the ultimate anti-TPK combo.
Does anyone else have any comments?
- Niilo
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Post by gandoron on Apr 5, 2012 19:07:13 GMT
I fit necro and trans on my cleric (this might be hard without HC). For 60+ level play, I think trans is a better choice then necro if you have to choose. Better power for the entire team.
-G
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Post by jeanhelixü on Apr 5, 2012 19:25:47 GMT
I definitely think you should get Legendary Spell Penetration. I would probably drop greater ruin for it. Since greater ruin is 2 shots a day, but legendary spell pen helps every spell.
Though you may want to try to get a UR race and restart with that before hitting hells. Doppelganger, Treant, and Fallen Angel each give +5 wisdom which would let you get +1 dc an additional legendary feat by only taking great wisdom 9. Or you could go with Stargazer if you get that and have much more skill points.
Going into level 60 areas with an open subrace is very possible, but the extra power from a UR race is quite nice nonetheless.
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Post by desocupado on Apr 5, 2012 20:18:55 GMT
Stargazer is the logical upgrade for a Drow character, as they get SF:Divination on top of a better INT/WIS/CON modifiers. Perhaps you should play this cleric until you get this subrace.
I'd grab 3 Wisdom + Legendary Spell Penetration + Greater Ruin and use a Transmutation tome. Drow is just too feat tight for Necromancy. Another option is to grab Abjuration tome, and increase Enchantment to LSF instead of grabbing Ruin. (then you must grab PSF:Enchant as soon as you hit 63, for GMW+15). This will net some interesting buffs that might help you a lot.
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Post by Enius the White on Apr 5, 2012 20:33:32 GMT
Hey Niilo I think your build looks great. It's a shame not to have IOF, but the only way I can see to squeeze it in is to loose Eternal Return, which is very nice in HC. The +16 from iof is much better than +14 or +15 gmw, because many end game mobs soak x/- at +15. The resulting additional damage output from all the tanks bypassing it can be substantial, and helpful for grinding down some tougher end game stuff over regen. You probably do want Legendary Spell Penetration over an extra Leg. focus. Thus, something like this may be the result: Level 48 - Epic Spell: Greater Ruin Level 51 - Great Wisdom VIII Level 54 - Great Wisdom IX Level 57 - Great Wisdom X Level 60 - Legendary Spell Penetration You can read the Necro or Trans tomb as soon as you get one, and it is a tough choice that you'll have to make, with every tank sincerely telling you it's a no-brainer .
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Post by vorshlumpf on Apr 5, 2012 21:23:41 GMT
Ah, yes, I forgot about LegSpPen even after labelling it a "must have". Thanks for pointing that out, everyone! Based on all feedback, my remaining 5 feats (for LL) must include Legendary Spell Penetration and the final 3 Gr. Wisdom - and I completely agree. That leaves 1 feat with these choices: Greater Ruin, LSF Ench, LSF Necro. Hmm, tough choice. Thanks for the help, everyone. I've got some thinking to do. But I seems to be coming down to (Greater Ruin and IoF) vs (LSF Necro)... I think I might take some time seeing what the HC community thinks (and I think Enius is nudging me to IoF . - Niilo
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Post by desocupado on Apr 5, 2012 22:59:31 GMT
Since you are hardcore, Enchant+ Abj might offer the most usable spell options (rebuke banishment, energy resistance, etc.). Assuming there is less need for IoF, as there are less tanks on HC. If that assumption is correct, LSF Abj is not half bad (as rebuke conflicts with Restoration)
Ruin+ Epic Trans is the regular choice.
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Post by vorshlumpf on Apr 5, 2012 23:16:38 GMT
Good point, desocupado. What would be more useful to the HC community: IoF or Aegis? I'll have to find that out. 50% Elemental Immunity would be nice, as would +18 Magic Vestments (at level 60). Great, back to three choices...
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Post by desocupado on Apr 5, 2012 23:28:16 GMT
Make that 75% energy resistance and a +19 Magic vestment and Banishment with LSF:Abj. For a pure cleric, it's a lot of power on Abjuration. (if you have mage armor from a domain it gets even better)
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Post by vorshlumpf on Apr 6, 2012 0:18:01 GMT
Are you suggesting I take LSF: Abj in PL? Or take it instead of LSF: Ench? Those numbers are certainly enticing.
- Niilo
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Post by desocupado on Apr 6, 2012 0:49:34 GMT
Instead on legendary levels... Rebuke is lvl 8 spell for clerics, and that's a pretty bad level as level 8 is best reserved for Extended Greater Restoration (since yours last more time due being pure CL 60, it would be even more tempting to not use rebuke).
Keep in mind this choice only makes sense if there are too few tanks on you party in HC mode. In the long run HC tanks (and teh rest of the party) might enjoy more a +100% Energy Resistance spell with PSF Abj along with two casting of aegis than extra damage, since death is way more dangerous on HC. Also Abjuration might make it easier for your to set the gear, no? Iof is the strongest weapon buff, but a small party makes it much less devastating than on regular mode with 5 tanks. (Keep in mind I never played HC, but since I see 5 man groups for hell runs, I assume this might be the case)
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Post by evilkittenofdoom on Apr 6, 2012 3:48:59 GMT
I found Abjuration Focus on my first character helped a lot with gear that I didn't have since Energy Immunity at 75% picked up the spot for what I didn't have. (Granted, a Sorc, but the principle is the same). The added bonus on Magic Vestment, Spell Resistance, and Banishment is great as well, and while I'm uncertain of how useful it would be, Break Enchantment would theoretically benefit from this as well.
Otherwise, the build looks excellent.
Heal is a very good skill to max, as it also powers the spell Healing Circle, which is great late game as an Extended spell. It's not huge, but it's an automatic quasi-regen of sorts that you don't have to think about too much.
Don't bother with Lore as a cleric or Spellcraft if you're not taking Ruin. Take Craft Armor instead, as even if it's only one AC fully buffed, it's one more than you'd otherwise have.
You might also consider Tumble, even as a Cross Class skill, it's a few AC from that as well and if you can get your effective skill above 15 in all that armor, you ignore attacks of opportunity from movement as well.
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Post by desocupado on Apr 6, 2012 11:14:25 GMT
Also, with magic vestment +19 you can use Armor and Shield that are immune to slagging regardless of their AC bonus (Asmodeus Armor and Sparten, are the examples in my mind).
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