Open: Wis Threader

[Drunkenmaster]

I am in need of a nice open subrace build and threader looked like a cool class. I want a wisdom based threader but really want a 18 strength and dex base for checks (thats what i saw on digs wis threader build) and figured that would be good enough. Can anyone help me with this please

[Yojimbo]

There is a bit of a reason most WIS threaders are on BUR tier sub races. The stat spread to get reasonable STR and/or DEX is too much. I would say for what you are asking the best you could hope for is 16 STR & DEX and WIS I doubt would hit over 40. It might be possible but it would be tough to build it and leveling one will suck for a while. The best race I can find off hand to try that might be Drider which has plenty of other problems of its own people don't like though you might can pull it off with Lizardfolk or Air Genasi.

[Deleted]

Short answer, you can't make a naturally universal wisdom threader with an open sub.

Longer answer...it depends on how much effort you are going to put in to compensate for what you want.

For example, if you are prepared to be double demi, with an asmo belt and use two paragon feats, you only need:

Base stat: 11
+16 (asmo belt str, dex, con) +4 (asmo belt anchor II, balance II), +4 demi bonuses, +4 para-anchor/balance, +1 all stats by paragon level 70, to make DC40 checks (and by the time you have all that, you will probably be meeting paragon creatures with DC48+ checks).

The problem is, you are going to have a tricky time getting there...

Just FYI, even if you could get 18 str/dex on an open sub that would only give you 30/30 with +12 stat gear when you first start running hell and only 32/32 when you eventually get some +14 gear.

Question 1: Do you really want an open threader as your primary toon? (I am assuming primary otherwise I would just say use your primary toon to get a better subrace).

Question 2: Do you really want to play beyond shallow hell with an open sub? (I have done, but I didn't use a threader and I wouldn't if I had to do it again, btw 28+ str/dex is playable with care in tia/dis/min and a lot easier to do).

If you are going to try this then I would suggest you look at human and use dragon blood for dodge feat, don't forget to take LSA discipline.

Don't be tempted to drop some wisdom for your dex/str - a typical hell fort save of 53 (Edit: or has this dropped since the curse song change?), with curse goes to 50, so you need a wisdom modifier of 21 (Wisdom 52) to force any check higher than a fail on 1 (assuming you don't splash, your DC is 30 + wis mod). To force a Fort fail 50% of the time you need a wisdom of 70+. If you can't force a fort save with a decent chance of the critter failing it, then you have wasted your time getting all that wisdom, you may as well be a dex/uni threader.

Or you could decide now that you are not going to hell with the first open sub you make, and use something like: highergroundpoa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=openbuild&action=display&thread=21222 to farm LL for gold to buy some better subs.

This isn't supposed to be putting down your idea of making a threader - I love mine! But I think you are trying to get too much out of the resources you have available. I was lucky enough to have a bur sub for mine and it was still extremely painful to play through hell for the first demi. str/dex are too low, ac is dreadful and you are feat/skill tight.

HTH
Lemon