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Post by tank on Feb 1, 2018 20:36:45 GMT
ill sell you a temporal autocaster, got any canopics? lul
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Post by Enius the White on Feb 1, 2018 20:51:39 GMT
Plus, I can push myself through Immortal. Indeed! I think the odds are definitely in your favor driving your new Llolth-Touched!
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 3, 2018 19:05:09 GMT
Theurge created. Since speedrun character Violet is female, and I have to make a male elf for arcane theurge, I named him Murasaki, which is Japanese for violet.
His description reads "Kesa wa bakuhatsu no kanji kakimashita." (今朝は爆発の漢字書きました) It means "I prepared explosive runes this morning."
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 4, 2018 3:42:05 GMT
Lolz.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 12, 2018 3:59:22 GMT
We didn't get into RPG Limit Break. They posted the games list tonight, and Higher Ground is in the "declined" list.
Things to take away from this.
1) I'd be lying if I said I wasn't expecting this or prepared for it. This always was a long shot, even after cutting the 40 bosses and dropping the time below eleven hours. Looking at the "accepted" list, the longest two games are Final Fantasy VIII and Dragon Quest VIII, both under nine hours, and both far better known. Higher Ground was the third longest speedrun submitted, behind Ar Tonelico 2 and Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne. None of this is surprising either.
2) I gave this the best shot it could possibly have in this timeframe. Definitely not disappointed at all in my submission's quality. If it was this prepared and they still didn't take it, then it wasn't to be.
3) The speedruns will continue after a decent-sized break. My ESL practicum isn't done yet, I'm starting to push again on learning Japanese, and I have other projects, but I want to improve this speedrun's time. I already have a bunch of new strategies to work into the route, killcounts to narrow down, XP numbers to crunch, and I can make the route riskier now that a marathon isn't looming, which means the eventual run can be faster. Neglecting more buffs, counting on damage rolls to kill things faster, overlapping spellbooks more, not bothering with spell breach on some things, etc. Expect excitement. With transparent enough notes, maybe other people will attempt the speedrun, too. People have suggested the idea of a two-player speedrun, so who knows.
4) The 1-40 areas are going to get lots of information made public in the form of guides, spreadsheets, and tutorial videos. People will also possibly come to Higher Ground as they watch my speedruns, so we didn't get as huge of a plug for HG as we would've gotten with the marathon, but there should still be something.
5) This was always a win/win for me. Now I don't have to think about a trip to Utah in May, and save money for it, I can just look ahead to Japan. I have no more potential obligations before that. That's a little mind-blowing to me.
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Post by ubernoobgaming on Feb 12, 2018 12:35:19 GMT
Johann, with all the old timers coming back, such as I, forgetting where the lowbie tags are were a put off for me. Videos of the tags and such would be an awesome idea! Sucks we didn't make it into RPG LB but you still did an amazing job and my heartiest congratulations on the win!
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 12, 2018 18:43:52 GMT
The marathon was never the primary reason I worked on this speedrun, it just would've been a very nice side benefit.
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Post by fngrenegade on Feb 13, 2018 7:51:28 GMT
Johann, with all the old timers coming back, such as I, forgetting where the lowbie tags are were a put off for me. Videos of the tags and such would be an awesome idea! Sucks we didn't make it into RPG LB but you still did an amazing job and my heartiest congratulations on the win! Have to completely agree with this, just watching one of the preparation runs really helped a lot in bringing back memories of where everything was and gave a good outline of a effecient leveling path so I can only imagine how video's notes and other things you will setup are even better. Too bad it didn't get into RPG Limit Break but I think a lot of the people here have watched and enjoyed the runs, and hopefully it will indeed result in some new blood.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 13, 2018 20:53:44 GMT
Brain dump time!
As I get back to thinking about ways to improve the run, I've been scribbling down idea after idea, and they're flooding into my brain, way more ideas than I thought I'd have. Ideas are leading to more ideas.
There are some big questions to be answered about the usefulness of Supergate after reincarnation, or the possibility of barring a school other than Divination. And then between the access to Legend Lore that would allow, and the +10 Lore rings I rediscovered in the shops, we have the potential for many strategies in the endgame to change drastically. Gift of Undeath is even looking less necessary in a lot of places, especially with Epic Warding in the route now.
Having 20 AC over an enemy's AB means as long as I don't flatfoot, I'm virtually crit immune, since the enemy would need a one in 400 to crit me. Unless it's Angus or the Immortal, one crit isn't going to break me.
Meanwhile, take a good, long look at these Lore damage increase numbers, they are rather tantalizing. Normally I have 43 Lore ranks, 13 INT mod, and a few points from tags. Ballpark that at 60 Lore, 65 with the old one Ring of Insight setup. Now throw in Legend Lore at CL38, and replace the one +5 ring with two +10 Rings of Enchantment, and ~65 Lore becomes ~110. That's an increase from 145% spell damage to 190%, or a boost of about 30% more damage over what I was doing. And if Lore is already this good, would Epic Skill Focus Lore be worth it, and can I fit it into the build?
This changes so many things, so many setups become much better, and some numbers would need to be re-tested to confirm whether a different spell should be used. It's so good that I'm even wondering whether removing specialization from post-reinc altogether will result in a time gain.
I don't use Gate that much to travel between areas post-reinc. Off the top of my head, to turn in quests and hit 33 after Lith to get through the drow back door, a safety Gate at Grehnaxas, to warp back to the An Kaima Venom, and to hit level 40 via quests found in the Shrikes/Axilar area. That door by Lith might not require 33 anymore, I haven't tested; Grehnaxas and An Kaima can be fast runbacks; and if I get good numbers on the shrike kill XP, I shouldn't need to return to town before the Academy. Unless I'm forgetting a super important Gate between areas, this means if I have to, I can go unspecialized in the second half.
There's also the possibility that I can specialize in Conjuration until just before Shrikes or Xulrae depending on whether I can get a barred epic, and bar Necromancy until then, either just unspecializing for the endgame, or switching to another school if I really want Conjuration for Evard AB. I haven't looked exhaustively yet, but I might be able to bar Abjuration just for the Hell Forge and Immortal.
This is all just talking about one idea so far, and I have so many more. Do I really need to drain the Immortal's spells before killing him? What if I just plant a black blade with Silence on him, and burn him normally? I could trap him with the blade in epic wall, and just use ranged spells, or I could use Evard and count on the blade standing ground and maneuvering the Immortal to stay in the circle, and bring GS scrolls or Vocalize for safety.
Do I really need to pull enemies out of the Matrons' rooms? Gate functions whether I have enemies attacking me or not. If I can grab the Matrons and find a good visual cue on the floor, I can missile them to death under Timestop without emptying their rooms. With Icestorm boosted by the extra Lore, I may even be able to just kill the entire room under Timestop like I do under Death of Magic in Gur'atsz. Max Icestorm damage needs to be tested on each Matron, then.
Maybe with the extra Lore I can count on a oneshot of the Shadow Elves without Weird. That would be so much faster and more consistent. Maybe the items in the Tomb of Shadows don't break sanctuary and I can skip clearing the room and breaking the orbs. Maybe I can kill groups of shrikes now instead of harming each one in the last map individually. Maybe I can scribe Mord scrolls before reinc so I can bar Abjuration before Xulrae, and have SR decrease while still having Necromancy open and Conjuration spec to boost Evard and orbs. Maybe I can push Illusion a bit to increase bug inflicts on the Immortal.
So many questions.
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Post by drunkenboastor on Feb 13, 2018 22:32:09 GMT
You cannot use scrolls from barred schools without having Use Magic Device skill.
It is unfortunate that Imaskari Focus Draughts are not available as loot or to purchase for a not immortal. I use them all the time for leveling, conjuration for map to map gating, transmutation for druid aoe drowns, enchantment for higher gmw, etc...
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Post by Torin on Feb 14, 2018 18:26:50 GMT
Having 20 AC over an enemy's AB means as long as I don't flatfoot, I'm virtually crit immune, since the enemy would need a one in 400 to crit me. Unless it's Angus or the Immortal, one crit isn't going to break me. Its even better: You are 100 % save from crits. From nwn wiki:"Since 20s do not automatically hit for a threat roll, a critical hit cannot be scored against an opponent whose armor class (AC) exceeds an attacker's attack bonus by more than 20. "
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 14, 2018 23:36:58 GMT
Oh wow. That... might actually make me safe against crits from the Immortal. Thanks for letting me know!
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 15, 2018 18:33:25 GMT
I've come to a conclusion about specialization after reincarnation, I think. I used to specialize as soon as I get the new character off the docks, but I found the first places I need Supergate are for safety on Grehnaxas, which has been moved to after Lith for grabbing safety, and warping back to the Troll tunnels to get the Jade Tooth. Now I specialize after killing Lith, until that point I'm left without spec so I can use Legend Lore at trolls and death magic/energy drain on the earth elementals.
Necromancy doesn't get any attention until the Academy, where I get Death of Magic. So I can spec in Conjuration and bar Enchantment and Necromancy from just after Lith until I go get my epics, maybe later if I can get epics in barred schools.
Then we have the question of the endgame.
If I want to be specialized in Conjuration, which doesn't help with Gate in the endgame but does improve Evard's AB, I will bar Enchantment and one other school. Abjuration is only used for three things at Drow / Immo areas: 1) reducing Matron / Longbowman SR (can be done with Bestow Curse, only drawback is touch spell), 2) Energy Buffer to block Sonic damage from Vrocks, and Sonic/Cold from Mariliths (not really a concern in either case), and 3) for the Shield spell's deflection AC. For #3, I have +10 deflection from the Psionic Blinders helm, and Shield gives me +12 instead. I ran the numbers, and with just the helm, I get exactly 21 AC higher than the immortal's debuffed AB (92 vs 71). Which means Shield is not necessary to make me immune to his criticals. Abjuration absolutely can be barred in at least the Immortal run, maybe also drow.
The other option is to stay unspecialized. This seems much worse to me, as it drops Evard's AB from 48 to 45. I use Evard in quite a few places in the endgame, ALL of them against targets with AC in the 59-62 range, and the Immortal's a 62. Evard is a big source of damage against the Immortal once Creeping Doom has run its course, dealing upwards of 60-80 damage per hit. Losing Conjuration spec drops Evard from a 26.25% chance to hit the Immortal after concealment, to a 15% chance.
So it looks like unspec until Lith is dead, then Conj with Ench/Necro barred until Shrikes, then Conj with Abj/Ench barred through the endgame. If I can get Death of Magic with Necro still barred, I'll put off despec until before Xulrae, and not respec until before the Immortal, leaving long distance SR drops available during drow.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Feb 21, 2018 22:47:51 GMT
Had a few more ideas.
1) Thinking about the An Kaima Venom gave me some extra XP in both halves of the route, from a duplicated quest. Obidiah has two quests back to back in the Shadow Elves area, the Doxy's Kiss and An Kaima Venom, so I drop my Gate point by the Venom when I kill the Shadow Lord, then warp back there for instant pickup after I've turned in the quests. I can do the same thing with Aura's Semi-Sentient Mushroom and Eversleep. Skipping the first of the two Zerya kills will set me back about six quests' worth of experience, but there are some quests just before reincarnation that I never end up needing, and the Eversleep helps close the gap.
2) In the second half, Extend and ESF Illusion both give the same boost to Ghostly Visage. I need to check the route to see if I can drop Extend; if so, I get a boost to Weird, and as a bonus I actually get two to three times as many two-round GVs. With Extend I get two-round only with Extend, but with ESF Illusion, I get two-round GVs with no meta, Empower, and Maximize. That becomes incredibly forgiving for stuff like the four Matrons and going from the Black Dragon Knight kill to the stake in the back of Castle Gaobin.
3) Epic Skill Focus Lore would be difficult to fit. Rundown of second half feats:
- ESF Conjuration, needed for Supergate (may be possible to forego Supergate in second half but it would cost some time)
- GSF or ESF Illusion, at least GSF needed for minimum duration on GV, necessary in many places. Must take either ESF Illusion or Extend, GV is far more important than ESF Lore would be.
- ESF Evocation for Missile Barrage, also used for Sunburst. Missile Barrage is crucial to the Drow Matron strategy and deals extreme damage to many important endgame enemies.
- Epic Spell Penetration looks possibly disposable, I'll look in more detail. The Ruined Headmaster used to force this, but he's gone now, and in his absence, the only endgame enemies that present meaningful resistance are the five Matrons and Lolth's Longbowmen. Need to see if Mord or a higher Breach spell will be enough with a lesser Penetration feat. I have to lower their resistance enough to guarantee my spells land, or the strategies immediately become very risky and costly on time.
- ESF Transmutation for Transmute Barrier and nothing else. This spell is used in only two places, the Immortal and Lolth's second phase. I am considering ways to do the Immortal without draining his spells, and if I can do that, leaving out Transmute Barrier in his fight may also be practical, but I need to have strong control over his movement. As for Lolth, I can potentially gear for enough Discipline to stand up to her second phase melee damage and the strip check, would need to examine that more closely. If I can skip epic wall, that's three feats. This didn't occur to me until writing this post, now I'm very curious about it. Needs plenty tests.
- Empower is too valuable for many things, not going anywhere. Maximize is absolutely crucial all over the route.
- Epic Warding affords too much safety to ever consider dropping. I don't know how I ever did without this feat, it's glorious. Even potentially saves time, as I can afford to heal less, buff less including completely ignoring Stoneskin, spend longer on the Immortal between rests, and think a great deal less in pressure situations, allowing me to focus on going fast.
- Epic Necromancy is an odd duck. It's the only way to skip the Immortal's heals, and a very convenient heal skip throughout drow areas, but otherwise does nothing for me. I don't think Necromancy ever benefits from focus feats in the second half for stuff like spell DC, Vampiric Touch doesn't have a save and Circle of Death is only used on stuff that has atrocious saves. Possibly switching to Undeath to Death for the undead shrikes, and killing more in the temple, so that would be a good extra reason to keep these feats in, although the heal skips in the endgame save so much time that it's more likely I'll drop Transmutation.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Mar 10, 2018 21:57:57 GMT
My student teaching is done, and I've been building up a backlog of stuff to test and plan out for this speedrun. In particular, lately I've been revisiting the Immortal fight. Some new ideas that can potentially make the fight take a fraction of the time it currently takes. I'm keeping it a secret until I know if it's going to work, because I think it's going to surprise people.
Also, Epic Skill Focus Lore definitely looks like it's getting into the build, Rogue will likely be traded out for Monk, and I think I found a way to save time... with Counterspell.
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