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Post by johannhowitzer on May 5, 2016 17:48:20 GMT
Yup yup. Speedrun is solo though. Still making great strides on the research front. I nearly have all quests tested, just need Xul tag to sneak into the drow city and get the last few, plus test a Very Important Thing(tm) in the Lolth run. See if you can guess what it is, but I'm not spoiling it until I've actually run the test.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 5, 2016 20:40:01 GMT
Okay! Very Important Thing(tm) was a success! That was the last thing I wasn't sure would work solo.
Still, though, can anyone guess it? Hint: Conjuration.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 8, 2016 3:39:32 GMT
Okay, it was Gate to teleport across the Crown Sanctum. This is why Conjuration focus is required, and it works - I can hit both levers solo.
In case anyone's interested, here are some gear setups I'm using!
Rift Canyon Grind Setup - Luck Helm (+2 saves) - Bracers of Dexterity +2 - Cloak of Resistance +2 (+2 saves) - Boots of Reflexes +3 - Ring of Resistance +1 (+1 saves) - Ring of Greater Cold Resistance (20/- cold) - a few Wizard 2slot items for extra invis - Health Pack, Agility Pack - Mage Armor, Shield, Resistance spells - Plenty of Ice Necklace of the Ulutiun
You are nearly unkillable with this setup, only thing that should damage you is skeletons if you get careless and flat foot. Level 3 in the Rift Canyon is kind of silly.
Umber Maze / Beholder Prison setup - Elementalist Staff / Ripping Claw (Bastard Sword for Battle Devourers) - Shield of Iron Will (Mind immunity) - Phalanx Armor (Cleave) - Slavers' Bracelet (Freedom) / Gauntlets of Lesser Enchantment (Disease immunity) - Cloak of the Empowered Ghost (soak) / Cloak of Resistance +2 - Belt of Fire Giant Strength (+5 STR) / Belt of Guiding Light (Death immunity) - Rhiannon's Constancy (Knockdown Immunity) - Priest spellslot items for Umbers for extra AB buffs - Wizard spellslot items for Beholders for extra invisibility
2d8 Fire and Electrical plus huge AB kills most things in these places in two hits.
I have an East Road setup that needs revision. I was using Harms, so the setup favors spellslots, but I think maxed Inflicts can be faster and safer, so I will need to change it to favor Heal skill.
Asimathas setup - Hospitaler's Blade (+heal) - Dragonbreach (+AC vs dragons) - Tempered Full Plate (+25% fire) - Helm of Greater Enchantment (Abj focus for 15% Energy Immunity) - Gauntlets of Greater Enchantment (Fear immunity, Haste, saves) - Cloak of Worldliness (to use sword) - Medic's Belt (+heal) - Rhiannon's Constancy (Knockdown immunity) - Amulet of Natural Armor +9 / Periapt of Wisdom +9 (for setting up) - Ring of Greater Fire Resistance (20/- fire) - Magic Vestment and other AC buffs, Energy Buffer, Stoneskin, Divine Power, then Maxed Inflict Critical until he cries. Pray for no Timestop.
Asimathas is still a deadly opponent even if you're careful. The breath weapon is still powerful and his AB is sky-high.
Razhid map setup (no setup yet for boss) - Elementalist Staff - First Defense (immunities) - Elven Ceremonial Armor (Evo focus, will drop this in future builds which will have Epic Evo by now) - Star Helm (this is for boss, has Harm immunity) - Gauntlets of Greater Enchantment (haste) - Cloak of the Blessed (WIS) - Weirding Module (5/- physical) - True-Born Boots - Periapt of Wisdom +9 - Priest's Circle x2 (Cleric 9slots)
Setup is centered around Implosion vs the Guards. Spawn them under GV and Prayer immediately, then Battletide - Prayer must be first or they'll be immune. With ESF Evo, maxed WIS, and five Implosions, you still need to rest every guard group but it's nearly a guarantee to kill each group before running dry.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 8, 2016 21:44:47 GMT
Today was a very productive day! I finished the first full experience route to level 20. Everything is looking very efficient, and I turn in almost every single quest at or above the level where the XP reward caps. The grinding to bridge the XP gaps is three Rift Canyon trips, five Beholder Prison trips, and two Umber Maze trips - these each have other things between them to allow the area to respawn completely. Several very nicely timed things are happening; for example, level 11 is reached just in time for when the Beholder Prison is next on the menu, allowing use of the Elementalist Staff. Also, something amusing happened after the final quest turn-in frenzy to get to 20: Easily corrected for, if I work backwards I can know exactly what XP total to have before starting the turn-ins to ding 20 on the nose. I should also mention that the route for levels 11-20 is probably the most complicated part of the experience route, because there are so few appropriately capped quests and so much grinding required to bridge the gaps. I expect 20-30 to be much easier to figure out.
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Post by dynneroth on May 10, 2016 3:43:18 GMT
Okay, it was Gate to teleport across the Crown Sanctum. This is why Conjuration focus is required, and it works - I can hit both levers solo. In case anyone's interested, here are some gear setups I'm using! Rift Canyon Grind Setup - Luck Helm (+2 saves) - Bracers of Dexterity +2 - Cloak of Resistance +2 (+2 saves) - Boots of Reflexes +3 - Ring of Resistance +1 (+1 saves) - Ring of Greater Cold Resistance (20/- cold) - a few Wizard 2slot items for extra invis - Health Pack, Agility Pack - Mage Armor, Shield, Resistance spells - Plenty of Ice Necklace of the Ulutiun You are nearly unkillable with this setup, only thing that should damage you is skeletons if you get careless and flat foot. Level 3 in the Rift Canyon is kind of silly. Umber Maze / Beholder Prison setup - Elementalist Staff / Ripping Claw (Bastard Sword for Battle Devourers) - Shield of Iron Will (Mind immunity) - Phalanx Armor (Cleave) - Slavers' Bracelet (Freedom) / Gauntlets of Lesser Enchantment (Disease immunity) - Cloak of the Empowered Ghost (soak) / Cloak of Resistance +2 - Belt of Fire Giant Strength (+5 STR) / Belt of Guiding Light (Death immunity) - Rhiannon's Constancy (Knockdown Immunity) - Priest spellslot items for Umbers for extra AB buffs - Wizard spellslot items for Beholders for extra invisibility 2d8 Fire and Electrical plus huge AB kills most things in these places in two hits. I have an East Road setup that needs revision. I was using Harms, so the setup favors spellslots, but I think maxed Inflicts can be faster and safer, so I will need to change it to favor Heal skill. Asimathas setup - Hospitaler's Blade (+heal) - Dragonbreach (+AC vs dragons) - Tempered Full Plate (+25% fire) - Helm of Greater Enchantment (Abj focus for 15% Energy Immunity) - Gauntlets of Greater Enchantment (Fear immunity, Haste, saves) - Cloak of Worldliness (to use sword) - Medic's Belt (+heal) - Rhiannon's Constancy (Knockdown immunity) - Amulet of Natural Armor +9 / Periapt of Wisdom +9 (for setting up) - Ring of Greater Fire Resistance (20/- fire) - Magic Vestment and other AC buffs, Energy Buffer, Stoneskin, Divine Power, then Maxed Inflict Critical until he cries. Pray for no Timestop. Asimathas is still a deadly opponent even if you're careful. The breath weapon is still powerful and his AB is sky-high. Razhid map setup (no setup yet for boss) - Elementalist Staff - First Defense (immunities) - Elven Ceremonial Armor (Evo focus, will drop this in future builds which will have Epic Evo by now) - Star Helm (this is for boss, has Harm immunity) - Gauntlets of Greater Enchantment (haste) - Cloak of the Blessed (WIS) - Weirding Module (5/- physical) - True-Born Boots - Periapt of Wisdom +9 - Priest's Circle x2 (Cleric 9slots) Setup is centered around Implosion vs the Guards. Spawn them under GV and Prayer immediately, then Battletide - Prayer must be first or they'll be immune. With ESF Evo, maxed WIS, and five Implosions, you still need to rest every guard group but it's nearly a guarantee to kill each group before running dry. I was going to say Gate, but I was 2 days late. Thank you for all your hard work and valuable information.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 13, 2016 0:15:59 GMT
No problem! I absolutely adore routing, and this is some of the most fun I've ever had routing a speedrun.
I've changed gears for a bit - I'll be running a game in a speedrunning marathon next Saturday, so I need to practice quite a bit. This makes routing the experience not really practical right now, since I'm trying to hang onto quest items so long and they go stale if you serverhop or keep them through a reset.
Thus, the Grand Set Loot Repository Project has begun! I will be ignoring simple things like keys everyone knows about, such as the Frost Orc Fortress Key, but recording just about everything else that isn't random loot (and thankfully I've been around long enough that I'll know by the name if something is random loot). I'm recording level requirement, other use restriction, exact map and location, mass sell chest price, and significant item properties. Which means I'll be ignoring things like light source properties, usable per day spells that no one would bother with such as Knock, etc. - if you want to re-include these things, once my information is made public you'll find it rather easy to go check each item, rather than doing what I'm doing, which is combing every map thoroughly.
I've already found some pretty interesting items I didn't know existed, and so far all I've done is the Arctic. There's a neat amulet by Dak with immunity to death magic, disease, and poison, and a cloak across the valley with immunity to paralysis.
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Post by fallenwizard on May 14, 2016 17:24:16 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how certain spells & effects are these days, but I'm fairly sure Pariah is the way to go on a speed running 1-40 tags on HG. If the said certain things doesn't work anymore, then Wizard with splashes would be my 2nd go to. The exp grind time from 1-40 should be less than 2h total, maybe 30mins from 8 > 15, then about an hour from 20 to 30 + some quests. Well.. Pariah is slower low teens, faster after reaching the status.
Although it being a speed run, means you can utilize all the tricks, why not go Sorc until 30's and then reinc into theurge if that is your idea of most effective "end-gamer"? Reinc takes you maybe 15mins tops, which you can easily save up in the leveling process by utilizing instakills. And reinc would definitely be the way to go with Pariah.
And I agree that MoaD is the biggest cave at in the proccess.
If one of these days I end up running into my cd's I'll make you a time to beat ;)
Edit: cd's were in top box in storage, if I manage to get things running without crashing I'll post some pointers shortly.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 14, 2016 18:06:56 GMT
Hmm, I didn't consider Pariah. Cleric does have some large advantages, but Pariah has quite a few as well. Quick comparison off the top of my head:
- Both are quasis, and will suffer strongly pre-20. With access to big AB buffs including Divine Power, Cleric suffers a bit less thanks to three buffs to the Elementalist Staff, which is doing major work in this route from 11 through 19 and probably beyond. You mentioned reincarnation will get around this.
- Theurge gets access to Heal and Harm at level 20, as well as Inflict Critical Wounds earlier, which are all spells that destroy single targets extremely fast with no saving throw. This is a much bigger advantage than it might seem at first. Consider Deepbats, which have very high saves and each take 2-3 Bigby 8 spells to kill, or just one Heal spell each and a small AOE to finish, maybe an Ice Storm would work as I know they take Cold.
- Circle of Death is nice, but with open subrace, the DC will suffer. Circle of Death is also not significantly faster at killing the Beholder Prison than my current setup - my setup is really fast there. It would give me a way to kill the Battle Devourers a little faster, but I'm already not spending very long on them thanks to maxed Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds.
- Pariah does get Sunburst to make up for the loss of Implosion at Razhid and the Plains of War. Implosion is nice against more than just undead, though, and while Pariah will have a good Disintegrate, Disintegrate only hits one target.
- Sorcerer cannot learn Invisibility immediately on creation. This is potentially not a deal-breaker, but it is serious, and is one of the things I considered when Herald was suggested. Having a quasi that is partially a Wizard is a major boost right out of the gate. Cleric can't even do this with Trickery domain, since Cleric only gets level 2 from the Rowan Guardian. It would be possible to just pop a few town quests to hit level 4, but that hurts more than you might think - only a couple quests cap at 3, AND this means being in every kill XP area somewhat later, resulting in significantly less XP in each grinding spot.
- Pariah has a much bigger butt and would have tremendous difficulty skipping spawns in many places unless the spawn trigger can be avoided. Which is also more difficult with a bigger butt.
- Pariah and Theurge both need two good ability scores, but Pariah only relies on one for spell DC.
- Inability to use Heal potions means my only option if my HP gets low is to GS or retreat. This is a SERIOUS problem against MOAD's breath weapon.
- Pariah can get access to both Rogue skills and Discipline for Lolth, while Theurge will have to rely on Bigby 9 and summons to keep Lolth away. This may not be an issue, I haven't yet had the chance to test my Theurge's pixie against all the chests I will need to open. If I can do so with the pixie, I will be able to take some other splash class, perhaps Monk for Tumble / Discipline or Paladin for the immunities. I can't see needing any Fighter bonus feats.
- Sorcerer's spells-per-level restriction is worse than it might sound, especially near the end. It is possible to swap things out from level to level, but when I run into a situation where I need to use, say, Gate, Mordenkainen's Disjunction, Bigby's Crushing Hand (all three necessary for Lolth), and some other level 9 spell for the same situation, we have a problem.
- Yuan-Ti works very nicely for Pariah, getting bonus XP same as my current build, and a nice boost to CHA with no CON penalty - thus a net 2 ability points in the two important scores over my build.
- Spellslots are probably about equal, or Theurge might have a few more. Two spellbooks vs 50% slot boost... hmm.
Reincarnation is not a thing I'd considered. Is it true that as a pre-legendary character, I could reincarnate into any build I like, without the CC or same class combo restriction?
I haven't fought MOAD yet. The current plan is to clear as little of the Coven as possible and as quickly as possible (of course, c'est speedrun!), empty all IGMS, Destruction, Vortex, etc. into her, GV/GS and run back to the Ascension Sewer to rest. If the corpse door closes or the despawn happens too fast, or if there's no way back upstairs (can't remember), resting in the Coven will be necessary and some spells will need to be saved to deal with rest spawns... and there will be much finger-crossing. I wonder if Gate could be used to save time running through the Coven? Or, alternately, I wonder if it's outside the realm of fantasy to kill MOAD without resting? It sounds far-fetched, but I will have two full spellbooks and even though I won't have UR staff and belt, rare belt shouldn't be too hard to find along the way. Maybe not level 40 rare belt, but level 30-35 or something. I'll need to get plenty of data on how each damage spell does for damage per slot before I know what I'm going to be using for that fight.
Thanks for your input!
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Post by fallenwizard on May 14, 2016 18:51:15 GMT
Gate is the least bug abusive way to rest, you cant rest in any of the dragon dens and if they follow you near the door they despawn. You also cant use rest ring because they are portable areas, so ring only helps in lolth/immorun
Edit: About the reinc yes, before immortal you can change everything freely except subrace tier.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 14, 2016 18:58:19 GMT
Yep. Having to rest to beat MOAD is currently the worst problem I'm facing.
It's also not outdoors, so I can't use One With the Land as a Herald.
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 15, 2016 12:15:15 GMT
I am about to start a timed run-through of level 1-20 on my stream, using current routing. It'll probably be a little sloppy since I don't have all spellbook preps and equips in my notes yet, just a rough outline of quests and grinding spots. I'll be doing commentary for this one as much as I can. www.twitch.tv/johannhowitzer
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 16, 2016 1:41:49 GMT
Six hours to get from 1 to 20 doing all tags on the way, here's the video. Plenty of time can be shaved off this, with more detailed notes and less mistakes. I think it may be reasonable to expect 12-16 hours for the full run. www.twitch.tv/johannhowitzer/v/66687007Also, some thoughts I had on instakills via pure Wizard or Sorcerer pre-reincarnation: - Circle of Death is the first AOE possibility, showing up at level 11 or 12, but at that level, not many casts. Open subrace is going to suffer from poor DC. Before Circle of Death, mage spells are a bit dismal for fast killing. When I play a mage with other people, I end up being a buff bot until then since I can't really do much with so few slots unless I want to rest all over the place and slow everyone down. - The Beholder Prison wouldn't be much faster since 1) stealth is still a good idea to avoid being massacred, and 2) frequent rests would be necessary. Also, mages would have more trouble with Gauths' melee and less HP to soak the missile storms. Beholder Prison wouldn't be a great area for a death magic caster despite their low saves (I think). - Umber Maze is an area I've never considered terribly viable for any standard caster. A hybrid is much more sustainable and you need to be to kill everything there in one pass. Resting is not safe there. The Catacombs work for resting, but it's a big backtrack. Umber Hulks have large bodies and not many can be hit by a single COD at once. Elemental damage spells can't hurt the Battle Devourers well, either; even my Theurge relies on Mass Inflict Moderate Wounds for those. - Sunburst can kill the Plains of War, but it's acquired at level 15 Wiz / 16 Sorc and isn't viable until around 25 due to turn resistance and DC both being a factor. I tried this in the process of leveling the Wizard I now use for checking set loot spots, the same one that tested Gate in the Crown Sanctum. Sunburst didn't work that well until just about the level I'd be able to Implode the Plains anyway - and there's plenty of tags from 20 to 25, which will keep me busy not worrying about XP. Implosion is better than anything else at the POW just because of Prayer and Battletide giving a virtual +4 DC. Sunburst doesn't even perform as well as Heal + Flamestrike combo until quite a while after you get it. Sunburst - and also U2D - can kill POW enemies fairly often, but if you want to be able to outpace Heal, you need to be able to mass the map, and a mage can't do that safely for a while. I would love it if this were a thing that could happen, though - I remember in Hardcore I used to park in POW as a Druid on five servers and keep hopping and massing, going from 25 to 35 in a very short time. - Rift Canyon wanes in XP yield too early to be a good option with actual Ice Storm spells or the like. SP needs to hit 19 which will happen at level 15, at which point you'd want to be in Beholder Prison or Umber Maze. So, if I'm going to do a mass instakiller build and reincarnate at 21 or higher to switch builds mid-run, I need some other areas. East Road is too slow and dangerous with the archers, Taro at the Farm have saves too high to kill quickly until mid 20s, maybe Strange Tower could be viable. It's a tempting idea but I don't currently see a way to make it faster; if anyone else does, please tell me!
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Post by condude on May 16, 2016 16:57:49 GMT
I watched a bit of the run, and it might be a good idea to lose a bit of efficiency on the quests in exchange for efficiency of not having to hit the same area more than once. For example, when I'm running up new toons, I'll grab Dreamleaf/Krenshar Skull/Riftwalker flesh/Goblin Commander/Kennel Master in one go. For a speedrun that sort of thing would probably help out a bunch. I only really noticed this when you ran Ogre Lord but not Forgotten Forest at the same time, although I didn't watch close to everything.
Secondly, if you're going to reinc at 21, I'd go sorc (And/or druid for AE...) pre-21 and cleric post-21. A cleric in plate+shield is really tanky at that level and can walk through most bosses with either plode or destruct. Plus farming Raz or POW for xp becomes a real option. I don't think Bonus class boosts quests, so that's not a huge deal, especially with the gained efficiency from plodes. Plus, if the race you choose has a bonus class, I think splashing 1 of it gives you the xp bump if you want it.
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Post by sabregirl on May 16, 2016 21:33:51 GMT
Most interesting to me was the bit starting off. The loot run with invisibility was pretty interesting.
I think you're going to face a real problem with MoAD, I believe she has a despawn trigger like many of the older (as in mod-age) dragons at the entrance to her lair. So just running out might despawn her unless you GS at the right spot and run out.
-S
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Post by johannhowitzer on May 16, 2016 23:30:02 GMT
That's the idea, yep, GS with her standing in the middle of the room so she doesn't get anywhere near the door. I remember the despawn near door thingy, ruined plenty of my tag runs back in the day.
I didn't think about Oltum and then reinc. That sounds mighty tasty! I'll give it a whirl, see what kind of routing I can get with the Oltum. I would run into problems with capping on tags, but I can just hold level and keep gaining XP. Half-Orc Chief is really quick so I can hold 10 instead of 7, and with a druid/ranger level I would need to grab level 5 from quests early to get Druid 1 / Sorc 4 for invis. As the AE shop items are a bit pricey, Sorc 4 first, then a loot trip, then grab items for Oltuming. Does the bird despawn if I run through the Crossroads and don't emp him?
There's only one issue I foresee, and that's area respawn times. I know how to teleport to town with the bird, though, so cycling several areas can definitely work. Want plenty of bird buffs too. Probably my first test will be to see which area gives the mightiest XP-per-minute.
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