The Dancer considers casting

[hfb]

Greetings,

As a long time rogue, tanker, archer, bard player, I find myself thinking about starting some casters. I thought I would start with a cleric before going full-on caster--i.e. wizard.

In planning the build(s), I need to know whether the Auto-Quicken (AQ1-3 + Quicken) feats have a significant game effect. It seems like they would up the number of spells cast per round to 3 (base + haste + quickened). Is that true? Some things I have heard in game seem to indicate otherwise.

Also, I am planning Sp.Focus 1-3 Necro, Evoc, and Ench along with Sp.Pen 1-3, CC and ICC, and max Gr.Wis. Are there other things I need? Is this pretty standard?

I have been toying with the idea of splashing with a level of monk and running unarmored and with evasion. Are these workable ideas? Other suggestions?

Thank you for your assitance,

The Dancer

[Ralkain]

hfb said:

In planning the build(s), I need to know whether the Auto-Quicken (AQ1-3 + Quicken) feats have a significant game effect.

On servers with haste (like HG), they'll have no effect so don't take them.

Also, I am planning Sp.Focus 1-3 Necro, Evoc, and Ench along with Sp.Pen 1-3, CC and ICC, and max Gr.Wis. Are there other things I need? Is this pretty standard?

Depends on the type of cleric you want, the above is more a pure caster (its all up to you).

I have been toying with the idea of splashing with a level of monk and running unarmored and with evasion. Are these workable ideas? Other suggestions?

You shouldn't think about this, you should definately do this. Splashing monk with a cleric caster is pretty much a must, you can't pass up the evasion and extra wis/tumble AC.

Folks will tell you to only take 1 level of monk at character L37, but I'll recommend taking one at L7 and another at L37. In the short run, getting evasion, +2 tumble AC, and ability to wear monk items early on helps (and gives haste at L9 instead of 11). And in the long run the +2 to all saves and deflect arrows helps (especially in ssith . Well worth the -1 penetration IMO.

Dave.

[doomsdaybringer]

hfb said:

Greetings,

Also, I am planning Sp.Focus 1-3 Necro, Evoc, and Ench along with Sp.Pen 1-3, CC and ICC, and max Gr.Wis. Are there other things I need? Is this pretty standard?

I have been toying with the idea of splashing with a level of monk and running unarmored and with evasion. Are these workable ideas? Other suggestions?

Thank you for your assitance,

The Dancer

i dont really think u need nero... the highest damage/death nero spell is Destruction which is only lvl 7 and only tanget one monster.. implsion should be all the instantanuous death spell u need and it is evo

[hiryuu]

Very true. Evocation is a given, probably Enchantment (GMW and the new epic armor), and whatever you need for any other epic spells you want. Keep in mind you can get one ESF from the books. If you intend to melee a bit, consider Extend Spell (for Divine Power, Aid, Bless, Battletide). I also like Empower for a little more spell flexibility.

[FunkySwerve]

hiryuu said:

I also like Empower for a little more spell flexibility.

I always take either empower or maximize, AND silence, to ensure that I have a lot of flexibility. It's especially helpful in areas where only a few spells are of use. It will let you cast twice as many horrids, for instance, instead of metoer swarm or another spell.
Funky

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

I took empower, maximize, extend, and still. Wish I'd taken silent, 'cause I didn't know about the spellcasting effects of being defeaned. Makes Immortal runs interesting. Ah well, I suppose if I was ever paralyzed I could cast the ones I load for one-level-up slots

But yes - the ability to move spell slots around to have what you need is rather important. Personally, I also hate it when my buffs drop so I take extend as a matter of course. Extended damage shields, extended globe of invulnerability, extended spellmantle...these things do not suck.

[Xcercs]

the question you need to ask is will the monk levels give better ac bonus than being able to wear full plate and a sheild ... for simple maths full plate +10 and trogen = 33 ac (18 armour + 15 sheild) both relatively easy to get against the +10 robes and wis bonus ... 50 wis is needed for 20 ac bonus as a monk

just some food for thought

[FunkySwerve]

You're leaving a lot of factors out. Tumble ac, and an extra 5 or 6 dex ac (from item bonuses, most likely, maybe 7 or 8 depending on the build) coe immediately to mind. That's another 13 ac, at least, more on a good build.
Funky

[hiryuu]

The dex AC is true. Tumble AC counts with or without armor, though, and there are several classes that offer it.

[FunkySwerve]

Right, but if he doesn't 'splash' monk with his cleric, he won't get the tumble. Unless he took another class like bard or rogue, but that would make little sense for a mostly pure caster cleric, with monk available. Didn't mean to imply that tumble was negated by plate.
Funky

[hfb]

Greetings,

On the AC front, flat-footed status, 1 or 2 points on an SR roll, and access to evasion seem to be the real factors to be weighed in the "to monk or not to monk" question.

Bonuses for full plated and tower shield using a paperweight style cleric:
Shield +17
Plate + 9 (including one for max dex bonus in plate)
Tumble + 4 (cross classed)
Total +30 => 106*

With Monk
Wisdom +26 at 60th +18 at 40th
Dex + 9 " + 9 "
Tumble + 8 " + 8 "
Totale +43 " =>119* +35 " =>111*

*With a base AC of 76 (+15s all around, Haste, Base 10, and AS. There is also the possibility of +1 from small size with pixie for the non-paperweight cleric build.)

Thanks for all the input.

[FunkySwerve]

I would recalculate that. The highest armor ac for dexers at the moment is 13 iirc, shields 13 (for tower (UR)), but that should allow an edge of around 10 (or a bit less now, forget) which turns into roughly a deficit of 15 or 16 when flatfooted (for purist dexers) unless the character has uncanny dodge - unless I misremember the totals (I run the max figures when I increase what's available).
Funky

[Ironfang]

All I know is I feel safe and warm in my heavy armor with a big ol' shield in my hand. Carrying a shield in your off hand also gives you a slot for some immunities, but I guess a flag also does the same. You would also be tempted to keep your Dex as high as possible for AC rather than letting it become a dump stat.

If you are flatfooted even with uncanny dodge do you get to keep the Monk WIS bonus to AC?

[hiryuu]

You keep the Wis bonus (and per 5 levels bonuses) even without Uncanny Dodge. For AC calculations, it's considered natural AC.

[Xcercs]

i will admit it is close ... and as a caster the debate has always being how many lvls can you afford to trade off into other classes for bonus' and with the new spell modifications i can see some of the oder builds going for a cloak and staff build as apposed to sheild and armour...

i guess the 10 or so diff in ac is really personal choice i tend to think of lvling and late lvl play hence my favor over the full armour and couple lvls monk for skill point dumps.

also a factor to consider is the new imporved divine sheild not only is the duration DOUBLED but it has backlash of divine damage based on charisma... any holes in (natural classed) armour will fill up nicely with X uses of divine sheild per day ... and it only gets better the higher the cha the longer and better the bonus.