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Post by woqued on Jan 16, 2018 11:44:36 GMT
You might be right that there should be a discourse switch from "tank" to "melee". In smaller circles we've been calling some stuff nukers, glasscannons and whatnot; but those terms have lost their value to us in endgame in many ways as the high value MELEES are both sturdy and focus on maximizing damage vs (usually) crit immune monsters and then adding as much on top as feasible for that specific build vs crittables. So buildingwise; reach sufficient tankability tier to be capable of hitting with as few interruptions as possible, and then maximize the effect of those hits for the nonutility melees; utility oriented melees follow same pattern but with the plan being: cover utility according to plan without becoming a carpet, reach enough sturdiness to be capable of performing actions with as few interruptions from opponents as possible (includes not dying, not getting debilitated, not spamming heal all the time) and then maximizing damage output once all these are covered at feasible level.
Edit: ^these things above change according to playstyle, owned gear/subraces; you build more defensively when you have poor defensive gear, and you build (and gear) more offensively when you have the gear to accommodate it.
BBoDs did a lot of our tanking while growing up, and still do (even for pretty much retired old trolls like myself).
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Post by desocupado on Jan 16, 2018 12:12:50 GMT
Here's a fancy table: Issue | Suggestions | Tags and party composition requirements
| Make tags account wise (tweak them as needed) Have different areas as alternatives at a given level range (a rogue heavy party won't go against the undead, but would love killing black dragon disciples) | Low population (low incentive for helping or doing lowbies) | Make a persistent, account wise bonus for each character a player gets to immortal (10% XP comes to mind) - higher content base xp values can be reduced by 20% to offset this initially (it would take three immortals to reach current base 100% and nine characters to double xp - assuming a multiplicative effect)
| Few options to farm xp/slow XP
| Increased early mob XP (+100%?) Increased quest xp (+100%?) Add a tag bonus xp (similar to quest xp? - if anyone in the party tags) More pre-ll xp boost items (like the book or even something like a sapphire) | Low decent gear frequency
| Dramatically increase loot drop (all pre-LL loot is obsolete really fast - the experience should focus on not assuming bank usage) | Pick pockets
| Have it work like Abyss disarm instead | Lack of party buffs/debuffs due low likelihood of a balanced party composition
| Make a bard (bard/curse song and maybe rapier wit and grease and ice storm) and cleric (melee battle tide, prayer and SoV) henchman Boost weapons and reduce the need of weapon buffs (outside limited enemies) | Remove low level keys and Add more teleporters
| If an account has immortal tag - any level 40 character can initiate a immortal run Teleport keys are substituted by account wise tags
| Alignment restriction for classes make taking monk and paladin levels a chore | Remove alignment restrictions for taking class levels I would remove for racial restriction as well - Defender and GI - and perhaps some class restriction - Dragon Discipline, Arcane Archer |
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Post by Raj on Jan 16, 2018 12:32:27 GMT
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Post by woqued on Jan 16, 2018 13:07:04 GMT
I really don't see why they should be left in the cesspit they are in currently when if tanks aren't gamebreaking in groups after being buffed massively why would the game balance be any different if they could do at least some of it on their own? This bit, I agree with, which is why we are adding lower-level teldar's and perfector module items in 1-40 areas. That, combined with allowing elemental gems to buff, should help right a lot of the low-level melee woes. Same thinking that went into making the low-level weapons farmable. Funky All in all this is pretty much /thread - will see after implementation what the situation will be, I'm assuming much better as long as the low level characters have access to gems without help of higher level characters. I do think the town / shopping / running between locations in Docks and Town could be simplified without making it more boring or less immersive, but that's more twiddling than a pressing matter. Thanks for the discussion!
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Post by boho on Jul 18, 2018 21:35:09 GMT
I'm curious how progress on the henchman is going as AI companions and the infinitely more controversial multi-boxing seem to be the only consistent things that have kept commercial group-focused MMORPGs alive.
What's still needed from the community?
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Post by MilesAtma_Redux on Jul 24, 2018 21:56:42 GMT
How bout a summons that you can talk to on a map. the summons would give helpful tips about the area -- what to prepare for, known enemies. sort of a guide if you will. Just for the lower areas, so new players don't feel so lonely maybe upon entering HG. Of course the information is already available, but an in game summons would be very convenient.
Just a thought.
To be honest, I enjoyed being overwhelmed with options and stores, and new areas. It was like being a kid in a candy store with endless options. Figuring out the shoppes was half the game to me.
Matt
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 27, 2018 5:52:10 GMT
I'm curious how progress on the henchman is going as AI companions and the infinitely more controversial multi-boxing seem to be the only consistent things that have kept commercial group-focused MMORPGs alive. What's still needed from the community? It's been pretty stalled since I'm focusing on area creation, until we get plugins done for EE. I have hacky ai done, and have for a while, but nothing polished. Coding realistic ai may take a backseat to simply doing a close approximation that works, likely with a cleric coming first. Funky
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Post by MilesAtma_Redux on Aug 2, 2018 0:13:14 GMT
i'd have to say, any suggestions I offer are merely for arguments sake; hg is by far more than I could ask for in an online experience of folks and content. Your team has certainly outdone itself, and any improvements will have been for the loyal veterans. I learned first to look into hardware and A+ through hg, and now I have equivalent of bachelor's in programming, and it would not have been for hg. God bless hg. When I have funds, hg get some. So, just relax and keep kicking arse, cause you guys are blessed.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 3, 2018 0:28:13 GMT
Thanks, Miles. Always nice to hear praise, and we certainly welcome any ideas that might help build our playerbase, especially early game issues/ideas. Funky
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Post by jeanhelixü on Aug 3, 2018 2:36:54 GMT
Could we remove the locked door reaching the lev ring? I know at least one new person was posting on that in the HG discord and how it made them stop playing for a time.
Just permanently unlocking that door would take very very little dev time.
I have tons of ideas on making leveling easier, but they'd all take dev time I know you don't really want to spend. Unlocking the door to the lev ring would be incredibly low effort though and would make things a tiny bit easier.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 3, 2018 18:08:49 GMT
You'd have to explain why we would want to do that. Easier != better, and one person temporarily stopping doesn't say much about what the problem is. Most of the content in that level range has been in place for well over a decade in some form, so I need better explanations to change it.
Thanks, Funky
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2018 18:52:13 GMT
For me, as a completionist, I want to do everything and complete everything. With zero awareness of how DnD or HG really worked, I just ran around blindly. Sure you have quests, but I ruined half of them going in due to a lack of awareness of the scope HG represented. Depending on your class, you need either the ring atop Anduin and a potion, or you need a quest reward. I know all of this now. Back then? Didn't know. I didn't know that pots boosted skills, anything. I was clueless. I think the lock, or the spot check, but not both should be leveraged.
Alternatively, keep both but maybe place some help via a sign, or a journal note, or something, to help players "get it" versus blindly getting frustrated by wanting to 'complete' before leveling and not getting the help they need. If you factor in truly new players also won't know about the interserver chat commands, this little bump is a potentially huge issue.
For me personally, I hate all of the lowbie experience. But, this specific point mentioned is the chief issue. To some it may sound dumb, or otherwise trivial, but this really threw things off with me. I agree with the Jean on this 100%.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 3, 2018 21:02:05 GMT
Thanks. I also had a conversation with Sabre. We'll figure out something.
Funky
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Post by chirality on Aug 4, 2018 4:22:26 GMT
i don't understand what unlocking the gate(s) has to do with needing the quest/anduin ring or potions to actually find the secret
the chime of opening is annoying to use, and finding the secret is/was annoying. but i'm sure it was hella more annoying to find the right spot before the quest rings were introduced (wasn't that part of the idea in the first place for that ring)
we've all read the !newbie log horrors of ppl being unable to find the spot/open the doors, and there was always some stories about some vet having to port in an immo toon to help poor newbie find the spot cuz they couldn't get the check. but then could say the same or similar for plenty of other stuff, like gaobin secret mirror, trans zone leading under fort to beholders, even immo crown (this one has happened sooo many times..."newbparty got lolth wow gz! crap we can't get the crown!")
i dunno, if it's that big of a deal just move the ring somewhere more obvious and without any "puzzle" to access (like the other rings...?) tbh the battle horrors are a rude surprise for newbies anyway. and as we all know, the area itself sucks and is useless and literally has no reason to exist or be ventured into except for the lev ring.
else leave as is, when it comes to stuff that has drove newbies from this game, i'm pretty sure "unable to find levi ring that you don't even need till 41+ an and can acquire for virtually "free" later on anyway" is really, really, really, really, really far down on the list.
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Post by magecat on Aug 4, 2018 11:12:50 GMT
I think the summation here is that game dynamic has moved away from Rogue functions in preLL.
Let's be honest, the vets all have mechanisms to address this, and the newer players are encouraged to make characters that will excel in the LL areas. This means that most of the Rogue related functions in the preLL areas are avoided or ignored whenever possible. The Levi ring just emphasizes this.
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