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Post by Ralkain on Jul 21, 2005 13:18:55 GMT
Hi, I had an idea to give DDs a nifty alternative to their normal abilities. I know DDs aren't overyly weak, but they aren't overly strong either. This idea is based on the Bard's Lich Lyrics and should only add some enjoyment to DDs without pumping up their power level very much (not on this server anyway  . Create an item like Lich Lyrics that they can buy with a name like "Battlecry", "Warcry", "Runes of Power", etc. This item would allow a DD to expend a daily defensive stance use to cast Great Thunderclap at ground zero. Often DDs get surrounded by *lots* of enemies and this would allow them to use a special effect, be it shouting, calling down lightning, slamming their hammer on the ground, etc to do some damage in an area and possibly knock some enemies down so they can move away if desired (instead of staying pinned for 15 minutes . It has a nice color and game effect, but isn't too offensive. Unlike bards, they only get a defensive stance use every other level (instead of every level) and its a level 7 spell instead of 8 and isn't quite as useful as wilts. So a lesser spell than the Bard pump and half as often. In short, I think it would add a lot of fun to playing a DD while only giving them a slight power gain. Dave/Ralkain. |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 21, 2005 16:02:17 GMT
Are you remembering that GT has been modded to do d6 sonic damage per level? Dunno if that factored into your calculations, or was part of your intent. An interesting idea...
Funky
PS This really belongs in the Suggestions for Class Balancing thread above.
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Post by Ralkain on Jul 21, 2005 16:33:19 GMT
Are you remembering that GT has been modded to do d6 sonic damage per level? Dunno if that factored into your calculations, or was part of your intent. Yes I remembered, it was factored in. Lower level and less damaging spell than wilt of Lich Lyrics and half as often, but nice knockdown/dwarven feel effect (throws or blasts everyone off him for a sec). Thanks, but I can't take full credit for it, it was your Lich Lyrics that made me think of it, so you get half the credit . Dave. |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jul 23, 2005 20:29:16 GMT
Ok, I guess I just have a hard time rationalizing a dwarf making that loud a noise nonmagiclly. I'm open to giving them another option, depending, but prolly not that one. They are already an extremely powerful class, which is why I haven't improved their defensive stance at all.
Funky
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Post by Ralkain on Jul 26, 2005 17:10:05 GMT
Ok, I guess I just have a hard time rationalizing a dwarf making that loud a noise non-magiclly. Me too, no one said it wasn't magical. Which is why you need a magic item to do it. Essentially this would be a DD only item (since it uses defenensive stance uses). IMO Defensive stance is as magical as Bard song, not as many uses per day, but it is certainly provided to them as a champion of a dwarven cause. That cause can be a deity, lord, or concept (and as we know clerics in 3e can worship/get spells from non-deity concepts). If it was a simple combat maneuver you could do it all day like flurry of blows etc. Essentially the item would allow them to reverse the polarity (if you will) of their normall inward rooting force and expell it outward (canceling their stance, if in one, and damaging/knocking down those around them). They certainly aren't weak, like standard Barb/Ranger, but they aren't a power class either (at least on this server, on some low magic ones, they might be uber powerful). If you have 3 power levels (weak, normal, high), they'd certainly be normal here (but very weak in offense since they normally go for the 21+ con for more DR). Just like lich lyrics is kind of cool for bards, I'd think this would be equally cool for DDs (even though its less damaging and half as often as the bard increase). In any event, use it or not its up to you. And as always thanks for all the hard work on the mod. Dave/Ralkain |
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Post by Argon on Jul 27, 2005 10:02:20 GMT
Cool concept! I agree, DD's are not a "weak" character overall, but they definitely tend towards the defense and not the offense. (Shocker, given their name, eh?) And I can understand if the DM team didn't want to do anything to buff them, that'd be ok.
I do think Ralkain's idea is a neat concept. The problem I have with defensive stance is that at high levels, your str and con are often fully buffed +12 anyway, and if you get some immortal equipment your dodge ac may be nearly fully buffed as well. So in effect, defensive stance really doesn't add much at all at highest levels. Making a DD "secret" item, like many of the other classes have, would then let you use the stance for a light touch of offense.
Alternately, I don't know if it would unbalance things, but maybe instead of the offensive boom, D. Stance could be made to go above and beyond the +12 max buff, kind of like the barbarians are able to do. (If you find the DD secret only?...)
Like Ralain said, thanks for all the hard work you DM's do, it really shows! :-)
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Rock
Neophyte
Posts: 17
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Post by Rock on Jul 27, 2005 14:30:58 GMT
Well i have a barb/DD 12/26 full con and over 1100hp, but my ab sucks (even with str belt +10 and other ab boosting items). To give you an idea all hes good for is taking hits and sluggin heal potions during fights while the rest of the party damamges whomever hes fighting. He's in no way powerfull when it comes to damage or ab. But then the only reason i built him was to survive the crown breaking! ;D
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Post by Ralkain on Aug 17, 2005 18:45:16 GMT
Hi,
Another DD suggestion, many servers have adjusted the Defensive Stance ability so that it stacks with your normal Str/Con and doesn't count towards the +12 max (i.e., when in a stance you can exceed the +12 with the stance bonus). They usually do the same for barbarian rage.
Without that it takes a lot of its umph out. Can something like that be done here?
Dave.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 17, 2005 19:05:19 GMT
You'd have to ask one of those servers how they do it, because as far as I know its impossible, short of meddling with Letoscript that would require 2 boots, one at the beginning of the stance and one at the end. Or name one and I'll go ask them.  Other than the technilogical impediment, I'm all for it. Funky |
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Post by Ralkain on Aug 17, 2005 19:55:18 GMT
You'd have to ask one of those servers how they do it, because as far as I know its impossible, short of meddling with Letoscript that would require 2 boots, one at the beginning of the stance and one at the end. Or name one and I'll go ask them. Other than the technilogical impediment, I'm all for it. Funky Hmm, the Legends of Chance folks had this working for both Barb and DD at one time (haven't played there in a long time, I can see if they still do). Not sure how they did it though. Dave. |
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 18, 2005 22:37:29 GMT
Please do, I don't have time to level up a barb there, but I suspect they used the cheesy workaround posted on the vault. It doesn't stack the abilities, it gives other, not very equivalent bonuses, that wouldn't cut it on HG. I could do the 'str' bonus via weapon enhancement like I did for barbs, and the 'con' enhancement through temp hit points, but it isn't really the same.
Funky
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Post by Ralkain on Aug 19, 2005 11:50:59 GMT
Please do, I don't have time to level up a barb there, I did, but the site has completely changed since I was last there (including the specialized server rules), so it no longer allows DDs/Barbs to exceed the +12 (lots of other rules are gone too). My recollection is that my stat actually increased above the +12, there certainly wasn't some other equivalent bonus applied. Oh well, without an example, it would be hard to implement. Thanks for considering it. Dave. |
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Other than the technilogical impediment, I'm all for it.