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Post by simpetar on May 21, 2020 8:25:49 GMT
I know I'm repeating myself, but imho it is vastly more beneficial (for the server, imo) to have those people roll 5-6 subs and incentivize people trade them among each other, even at the risk of someone not getting what they want. Otherwise soloing/duoing multiboxers will have no incentive to play nice anymore, you'll just solo p2 and get what you want overtime regardless of social interaction with others. It is for this reason that I am against the cano sellback option, and also believe that getting what you want without interacting with others hurts the community no matter how expensive you make it. This is the very reason we see so very few xr up for auction and so few to trade, one mans trash is usually a new players treasure, but instead they are sold back to Ixiom, or possibly just bought outright and never see junk you would have to use for tradebait again. I would love this option, but if it were implemented we would see fewer xr trades without a doubt. There are so very few already with the sellback option in place as it is that beginning players or those without as much time on peek hours have no chance to gain even a broken xr item that's better than the bur stuff they have access to without the huge time investment of grinding limbo. Maybe the intent was to keep xr out of auction chests and as minimal trade options as possible? That just seems contrary to a community growth to me. Am I alone in this perspective? The obvious answer is to start running Limbo yourself. It is not such a scarecrow that only the top of the top can do - as long as you are willing to learn and do little bit of research. Heck, p1 doesn't take longer than your average hell run. You don't see XRs in auction chests because they are tied to currency you have to earn, unlike BURs that drop left and right - they aren't bought for gold, but canos, which is why the only suitable trades will be done for other XRs or some mounts of canos. Junk XRs get refunded (and they deserve to be: many cloaks, tower shields and similar abominations fall to this category), mediocre are kept as trade baits and good ones are worn. The more people do Limbo, the more trade opportunities you will have.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 3, 2020 20:53:29 GMT
So, I've thought about this a lot. I think this still needs to be a thing. And it's easy to say the population base for this could be small, but I think it would be bigger than people think. We all have certain items, or books that are something we desire. This helps people make the choice to get their item(s), but does so in a controlled manner. With that said:
- Targeted XR purchase. Amount to be determined. - One month cool down per use, or more. A cooldown is the point though. - XR refund for 20 canopics is removed.
I feel like this would allow a player who doesn't play frequently a chance to say, I want (x) sub, or item and grind for that, versus dropping a gamble and getting nothing close to what they wanted and feeling like they're so far away from getting it. It also lets players decide I want to make (x) build, or do (x) thing, and have a way to go about proactively dedicating resources to this if they so chose. To help encourage and maintain the community of trading you have a cooldown placed on this option. For a guild like mine, it means we can frequently use this option if so desired, and still mean extra canopics are there for other purchases. For others, it means they may not use it on cooldown or very often, but can do so. Removing the refund will help build up and facilitate the trading too.
Remarks were made by multiple people back when SsendamGate went down that people knew something was going on because Manuka and I were offering multiple XR books for one specific book. I'd do it then, and I'd do it now. I deem a lot of things junk. A lot of things I deem junk others would value a whole lot. This is a win win option for everyone I feel like. If a player doesn't feel it is worth it for them to bank, and they have so many needs that blanket gambles or targeted gambles work for them? Awesome. Any active Limbo runner will get to a point where they won't need things, and / or have a desire for (x) build or idea and want to jam all their efforts to that goal.
I think this could positively help everyone.
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Post by swiftgabriel on Jul 3, 2020 21:14:10 GMT
And it's easy to say the population base for this could be small, but I think it would be bigger than people think. We all have certain items, or books that are something we desire. There have been numerous occasions that I have bought artis, rors, other consumables for canos from people who otherwise would never have the chance to earn canos from actually running limbo; whether from the lack of desire to do limbo or lack of time, many players only get a few chances to get something they want. Giving these players the chance to get something that they would like to play or use for whatever number of canos would benefit more than just the people who normally run limbo.
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Post by AW O'Reilly on Jul 4, 2020 17:12:06 GMT
Canopics gamble system is total shirt. As in, "I just spent 6 hours in limbo and all I got is this shirt ring." As for taking in a Thousand plus canos, that is roughly 60 to 100 hours of your life. The value proposition of the current limbo loot system is broken IMO. Just to get a chance for an xr race, and it might be total crap, 8 to 16 hours. Seriously broken.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 12, 2020 23:19:14 GMT
Bump for that targeted gamble option!
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Post by tomaan on Jul 13, 2020 14:25:58 GMT
This convo sounds familiar!I'm of the belief that XR should be extremely rare...not something you can get just because you log the hours. Yes, I know they are purchased with canopics and, frankly, that's irrelevant - I may have $10m to spend but if the house I want isn't available, then I'll just have to wait until it is or look for an alternative. IE: there are BUR subbies I've never seen drop despite hundreds of runs...in that time, I've acquired plenty of gold or set loot: but that doesn't mean I should get access to those missing items. frustrating, to be sure, but se la guerre.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 6, 2020 23:30:43 GMT
Coming back to this...
I would like to suggest the following:
1) Remove all refunds for XRs. This will keep all gambles of any sort within the community. The value for undesirable items to a given player is then in trading. Win for everyone. 2) Add in a targeted XR gamble for a certain amount. This amount will allow the player to pick a specific item base or subrace for a set amount of canopics. 1500? Maybe have this go up everytime it is used?
One can look at that and say most people will never reach that. If they don't save, they won't. If they choose not to wait they can test fate and potentially get something awful on a 50, or an unwanted item / book on any of the other tiers. It rewards players who want to target their efforts. Regardless of how much or how little someone plays, you definitely hit a point where you have the "must haves" and then just generally need a lot of everything. The "must haves" vary per person. I think both are wins for the community and allows players to take control of their canopics more directly as well as rewarding the entire community by stimulating the trades.
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Post by Enius the White on Sept 7, 2020 0:33:38 GMT
My thoughts tend to align with Tomaan here. The "completionist" motivation, be it for every item, or a desired ideal subset of items, can be a decent endgame drive. In most cases, the list of not-attained random items grows smaller as player experience, and resulting power, increases. Accordingly, speed of attaining items increases as the list of remaining not-attained items decreases. Prima facie this seems like a desirable dynamic to maintain, as it makes completion scarcer, and a more valuable goal, to help support end game grinding.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 2:37:34 GMT
Solid point. I think you have to balance that around the fact of, players bailing because achieving that goal is also so far off. Hence why the amount you set is reflective of also preserving that goal. They all go hand in hand. I appreciate the the thought.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 2:40:57 GMT
1) Remove all refunds for XRs. This will keep all gambles of any sort within the community. The value for undesirable items to a given player is then in trading. Win for everyone. Why is refund removal necessary? It is a choice. You can either refund an XR and recoup a crappy roll or don't refund an XR and toss it into a chest. Just because you don't like the refund choice doesn't mean others don't as well. There is still XR value either way.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 7, 2020 2:44:25 GMT
I think you have to balance that around the fact of, players bailing because achieving that goal is also so far off. This sounds like a scare tactic to push your point. Not everyone who leaves the game do so because they cannot gather "1500" canos. There is a reason it's called a gamble. . .
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