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Post by jelricle on Aug 23, 2020 4:05:49 GMT
Is there any place that lists Shifter changes in newbie, non-acronym language? I keep finding changes by surprise. eg: - Gargoyles wield a Falchion, so unarmed feat does not help - Gargoyles don't have damage resistance - Wyrmlings don't seem to have True Seeing - Shapes do not give hit points
I also do not understand some of what has been documented. eg: - Damage from abilities is supposedly based on Animal empathy instead of Lore. I play the regular modules, where damage is based on shifter level, so I don't understand what the documentation means by "instead of lore". Also, I pumped my animal empathy up from 7 to 52 with items, but I do not notice any difference in damage. - They say that I can now focus in creature weapons . . . So does any form benefit from unarmed feat, anymore?
etc.
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Post by Tru3Fals3 on Aug 23, 2020 7:35:59 GMT
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Post by tomaan on Aug 23, 2020 22:20:07 GMT
Is there any place that lists Shifter changes in newbie, non-acronym language? I keep finding changes by surprise. eg: - Gargoyles wield a Falchion, so unarmed feat does not help - Gargoyles don't have damage resistance - Wyrmlings don't seem to have True Seeing - Shapes do not give hit points I also do not understand some of what has been documented. eg: - Damage from abilities is supposedly based on Animal empathy instead of Lore. I play the regular modules, where damage is based on shifter level, so I don't understand what the documentation means by "instead of lore". Also, I pumped my animal empathy up from 7 to 52 with items, but I do not notice any difference in damage. - They say that I can now focus in creature weapons . . . So does any form benefit from unarmed feat, anymore? etc. Most of the good shifter abilities requires legendary form focus to unlock. Not having it could explain why you're seeing limited damage and feats aren't translating. In terms of unarmed feats - they apply to any armed form wiht legendary form focus Creature weapon feats are specialization (ie extra damage), but I believe that ONLY applies to the unarmed forms Animal Empathy only impacts spells cast in shifter form...you won't see it on any other attacks I'm not sure about Wyrmling true seeing, but if you don't see it in the dox then it probably has been removed. hope this helps!
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Post by jelricle on Aug 25, 2020 16:59:12 GMT
Thank you both!!
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Post by jelricle on Aug 25, 2020 17:07:36 GMT
FYI, here are the lines that confused me, regarding unarmed focus. The two statements seem contradictory (one seeming to say all forms benefit from unarmed feats, and the other seeming to say you need legendary focus to have armed forms benefit from unarmed feats):
- Unarmed weapon focus feats now benefit armed forms while shifted. . . . - For armed forms, legendary focus feats allow unarmed weapon focus feats to be translated to weapon focus feats. With LFF1, Weapon Focus is translated. With LFF2, Epic Weapon Focus and Improved Critical are translated. With LFF3, Legendary Weapon Focus is translated.
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Post by Paradoom on Aug 25, 2020 18:49:48 GMT
It´s not a contradiction, but I see it similar, that this should be expressed clearer. It should tell you that there are requirements for that benefit in the first statement.
As it is now: First statement says that those feats benefit the armed forms now (hg mod). The second tells you what the requirements are to gain those benefits.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 26, 2020 3:48:56 GMT
It´s not a contradiction, but I see it similar, that this should be expressed clearer. It should tell you that there are requirements for that benefit in the first statement. As it is now: First statement says that those feats benefit the armed forms now (hg mod). The second tells you what the requirements are to gain those benefits. . . . That leaves me a bit _more_ confused. The first statement says _un_armed feats benefit _armed_ forms. Does the second statement mean this help to armed forms does not occur until legendary levels when I can take legendary foci in the various shapes? Okay, then which forms are helped by unarmed focus pre-legendary levels? eg. Does unarmed focus help forms with creature weapons? If so, why have a creature weapon focus feat (Which is mentioned elsewhere)? If not, which forms are completely unarmed?
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Post by tomaan on Aug 26, 2020 5:30:54 GMT
Does the second statement mean this help to armed forms does not occur until legendary levels when I can take legendary foci in the various shapes? Yep, that's exactly what it means. That's why I reincarnated my shifter tank instead of leveling him from 0. If you're making an "ability mage" it won't matter, to be honest....just use your spell-like abilities until you get to legendary levels.
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Post by jelricle on Aug 29, 2020 21:26:45 GMT
:-D Thanks tomaan.
Unfortunately, I am a bit of a masochist. I subscribe to the James Kirk "There is no such thing as no-win". I like fighting tooth and claw to get through (You would not believe how much prep it took for me to eliminate the rat King when I was low level, or the Kobold King or the East Road Bandit Chief) The Oltum is a little bit too much cheating, but I was hoping to know how to optimize my build for the future.
Do you know why we have Creature weapon focus, if we also have unarmed?
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Post by tomaan on Aug 30, 2020 12:55:52 GMT
:-D Thanks tomaan. Unfortunately, I am a bit of a masochist. I subscribe to the James Kirk "There is no such thing as no-win". I like fighting tooth and claw to get through (You would not believe how much prep it took for me to eliminate the rat King when I was low level, or the Kobold King or the East Road Bandit Chief) The Oltum is a little bit too much cheating, but I was hoping to know how to optimize my build for the future. Do you know why we have Creature weapon focus, if we also have unarmed? Creature weapons are claws and bites and stuff
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Post by simpetar on Aug 30, 2020 13:55:24 GMT
Weapon Focus: Creature is not available to players by default on leveling, so you don't have to worry about missing it. Only Weapon Specialization: Creature that some subraces get for free and it is dubious at best. When you attack in an unarmed form, the game still considers your attacks as unarmed strikes, not creature weapon. If you so wished (although not recommended), you could splash a monk level and have, let's say, dragon with monk flurry of blows. The only way for PCs to get hold of a creature weapon that I know of, is to have your animal companion killed and then loot their body, they sometimes leave behind their claws.
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Post by jelricle on Sept 2, 2020 20:44:47 GMT
Yeah. That is why I am confused about shifter changes. The docs say Creature weapon is available, but what is the point of Creature weapon feats if unarmed feats get used for those forms, instead? And if I misunderstand (ie. if some forms use Creature weapon feats instead of unarmed feats) then which forms use unarmed and which forms use creature weapon?
Also, I do not see any documentation about hit points. In the regular game, shifter forms grant hit points, but I do not see that in HG (neither set hit points, nor a bump when a form has better constitution)
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Post by tomaan on Sept 2, 2020 23:25:35 GMT
Yeah. That is why I am confused about shifter changes. The docs say Creature weapon is available, but what is the point of Creature weapon feats if unarmed feats get used for those forms, instead? And if I misunderstand (ie. if some forms use Creature weapon feats instead of unarmed feats) then which forms use unarmed and which forms use creature weapon? Also, I do not see any documentation about hit points. In the regular game, shifter forms grant hit points, but I do not see that in HG (neither set hit points, nor a bump when a form has better constitution) Unarmed feats only apply to armed forms if I'm not mistaken Your hit points will adjust up/down if your con adjusts up/down in shifted form and then back again once you unshift, but I think that only happens with LFF. And the Komodo Build adds points to con so, apparently, it's not a deal-breaker
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Post by jelricle on Sept 13, 2020 3:54:55 GMT
. . . Well, a dire tiger is unarmed, but I assume it has creature weapons. So do unarmed feats apply to dire tiger? Or do I need Creature feats? What about harpy and medusa and Ilithid? I believe they have creature weapons, but are also unarmed. AAAAHHHH!!!!
Oof, so I have to wait until legendary to get constitution buffs? I guess I will put remaining points in constitution then, instead of Charisma, now that I can reincarnate. My 8 constitution has left me very weak at level 21, but I was expecting bumps from the forms. :-(
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Post by thomascovenant on Sept 13, 2020 7:08:53 GMT
. . . Well, a dire tiger is unarmed, but I assume it has creature weapons. So do unarmed feats apply to dire tiger? Or do I need Creature feats? What about harpy and medusa and Ilithid? I believe they have creature weapons, but are also unarmed. AAAAHHHH!!!!( They have special powers, like the medusa they cast a cone who stoned the many of the mobs What you need to understand it,s the shifters before a certain level are not so effective in many of them forms, just be sure to maximize them wisdom as much as you can. For my part i have 4 or maybe 5, my last 2 are from the same build with a couples differences for the second one. Both are melee, they are Ranger/Shifter from Tomaan Klaa Build on the forum, them main class focus are Ranger, i have have to say they rock, are very solid , do a lot of kills and dmg done too, mostly on all runs including Hell's runs my highest one who is now lvl 71 is in the top 3 party members for the dmg done but also for the kills on the run. If you want a good one you should take a try of his build.
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