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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 5:59:39 GMT
I do think that shifting XR race to level 70 would be a nice motivation because attainment would not seem so impossible, however, I also think people should work their way into limbo to be able to access those items. More people in Limbo (or when Mechanus comes out) would be so nice. Though, now I just got a yucky feeling recalling the limbo slog.... so maybe its not so nice. Yes. Let's maintain the Limbo slog producing such yucky feelings. No one is asking for them to be easy... what is being asked for is an adjustment to some of the current facets to the system to make it feel and operate better.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2020 6:47:02 GMT
I do think that shifting XR race to level 70 would be a nice motivation because attainment would not seem so impossible, however, I also think people should work their way into limbo to be able to access those items. More people in Limbo (or when Mechanus comes out) would be so nice. Though, now I just got a yucky feeling recalling the limbo slog.... so maybe its not so nice. Yes. Let's maintain the Limbo slog producing such yucky feelings. No one is asking for them to be easy... what is being asked for is an adjustment to some of the current facets to the system to make it feel and operate better. I don't follow your logic. You are saying that my opinion of limbo being sloggy should be evidence that reincarnation should be streamlined in order for cost of Reinc to only be one book (XR book in your case cause duh! BUR books are not an issue)? . . . Yep. Sounds like you want it easier.
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Post by horbag on Nov 18, 2020 9:18:40 GMT
i get the BUR book problem, even tough i am one of the lucky few with an XR subrace and i have been to limbo, it is limbo, end game, end game should not be easy to get and the XR gear is uber so no do not change this , but the BUR stuff can indeed be very demoralizing for the newer players, i get the time investment, planning runs, doing them then get to the lootsplit and behold, a half celestial drops, out of the 10 people who likely all still want that book just one will get it, so i do agree that there should be a change for that tier, however, sometimes it can be easyer just to make a new toon. if it is a 1x demi it is not that bad to do, once you get to 3-4x demi and a prince win it starts to hurt.
i realy liked the idea yune proposed that you can upgrade to BUR once you have your first prince win, this is not the easyest to get when you are new to the server and is a great goal to be able to get an upgrade where you can easely work towards with a good investment and you will fell (at least i know i would) like you have earned the upgrade.
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Post by xakila on Nov 20, 2020 2:52:36 GMT
Seeing the x2 book now with XR's in mind (and hearing how the gamble plays out) is kinda why I brought up the system even though I've now reached the point in the game that it is much less relevant besides my original druid and sorc (for bur level toons.) No other upgrade path in the game (tagging, equipment aquisition, demi, prince, etc) requires you to do it twice on that toon to take advantage of that step (aka each demi is progress, not do first demi just to be able to begin to gain demi levels)
Yune's suggestion of burning any book of that tier is an awesomely better option if you feel the need to keep an extra cost to upgrade a toon once you've unlocked the achievement rather than make a new version, at BUR tier and XR. It may lower the cost of certain races a bit, but it increases the values of many of the "junk" races of those tiers a lot. The bonus is it let's you flow naturally into your upgrades without quite as much gamble. You still need to attain the race you want (which as is would already let you make a new char of that race, including the new version of the toon you're playing if you weren't reincarnating) and you still need to attain another book of the higher tier to upgrade into it(if that's an important facet to hold on to.) In effect it's sort of like the race hop since you can use other races of the higher tier to get into the tier, without the 3 month delay of enjoying the upgrade you just found (or the feeling of just having achieved half the upgrade). It feels more streamlined. The needing two of the SAME book feels multiplicitly more of a gamble/expense (considering what else you could be spending those resources on or winning two splits with said race in loot.)
Core's here are vital, new players are encouraged to play cores, 3 out the four of which are top tier expensive to upgrade into their optimal BuR versions, and new players are most likely to feel those upgrade costs heavily. Simply put, if you start as a sorc you really want a radgen, but one rad gen is worth a lot less because it's what you need for what you are already playing, as opposed to a half celest which lets you start a druid/cleric off well at Bur tier. With radgen as the example what else are you going to play with it? At least with others like half-celestial you get more options so it opens up to something new while you wait for you're second copy. Basically as a new player getting the race you want is only half as effective as getting something else, unless you want to restart from scratch. Being able to burn a furchin that came to me as 8th pick in a loot for example would make that Rad gen Awesomesauce tho.
One of the big reasons the x2 book cost is unappealing as is from my perspective, is every character I could make before I could start at bur would be a detriment cause every one of them is going to cost me two of their final race book (and again at XR if they go that far) in the long run if I want to progress them, and the compounding cost of playing before I had gotten past the tier hurdle discouraged enthusiasm in playing a variety of options. Tons of stuff I wanted to try, tons of waiting to be able to start. (granted without reincarnation at all would be moot point, but reincarnation to upgrade yout character is one of the things that drew me to HG, along with upgrading race.) I felt like I had to pregame to really get into the full HG experience rather than develop fluidly. The 2 (of same) book system encouraged less play/variety from me until I have the right race to begin a character.
anyways just 2 cents, universe is chuckling with me cause after I started this post and brought up the druid example the very next run half celest dropped and I rolled a 98... so... I can make a cleric now! First time I ever see it drop and it's right when I bring up this subject, so see I was supposed to bring it up! So in 47 days.. if I can find another erinyes, I can take the next step and have a half celestial druid in only 107 days from now! *edit due to math error * (oops math error... 137 days from now) *end edit*
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Post by Tru3Fals3 on Nov 20, 2020 10:14:42 GMT
make xrs readable at 70
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Post by Lil' Mikey (Msowby2) on Nov 20, 2020 17:26:29 GMT
No edit: Make all XRs equipable at 80 as punishment for wasting dev time reading this thread!
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Post by tomaan on Nov 20, 2020 21:55:54 GMT
anyways just 2 cents, universe is chuckling with me cause after I started this post and brought up the druid example the very next run half celest dropped and I rolled a 98... so... I can make a cleric now! First time I ever see it drop and it's right when I bring up this subject, so see I was supposed to bring it up! So in 47 days.. if I can find another erinyes, I can take the next step and have a half celestial druid in only 107 days from now! *edit due to math error * (oops math error... 137 days from now) *end edit* Forget the second erinyes...you can level to double demi in a lot less than 137 days. If you power level, you might even be able to do it in 47 days. It's faster, cheaper and gives you a BUR subrace build that can be reincarnated into other BUR subraces without a second book.
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Post by xakila on Nov 21, 2020 0:20:10 GMT
ending was kinda a joke, I have a wierd sense of humor ,
As to the intent if the original post I want to thank Chirality as their posts helped to see the why and how it is the way now more clearly, and many other players who voiced their observations whether pro or con.
As to whether it's a problem or not is an opinion, but one way or another opening up discussion serves to show how things appear/feel to players with different perspectives. Which serves the future of HG overall imho.
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