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Post by jelricle on Dec 18, 2021 19:05:31 GMT
Hey Everybody,
Are there any must have tower shields for a shifter? If I give up tower shields and one fortitude save point, I could reincarnate as a gnome (all my weapons are small, so giving up two handed and large weapons is not an issue)
That would give me and additional +2 in Constitution (offsetting the loss of the Great Fortitude feat by one) and an extra skill point per level (plus the rather underwhelming bonuses against mind spells, goblinoids, reptilians and giants; plus low light vision and listen skill)
P.S. Do any shifter abilities count as illusions?
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Post by jelricle on Dec 18, 2021 20:03:59 GMT
Oh, never mind. In my testing, it looks like an Anarch Gnome does not get the extra two skill points listed in the wiki (16 int gives only +3 skill to the shifter and Druid 4 for a total of 7/level)
(Although he did get the +2 Con)
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Post by magecat on Dec 18, 2021 20:12:38 GMT
The skill points come in at L41.
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Post by simpetar on Dec 18, 2021 20:55:55 GMT
Extra skill points for gnomes kick in after lvl 41, and apply retroactively. Gnomes cannot use tower shields, only large shields, and more importantly, you won't be able to have Staff of Emrys (read the other thread) + shield as gnome -> human (or elf for ranger splash and able learner) is better. No shifter ability benefits from illusion focus, the only spellcasting feat you may possibly want is spell penetration (from the book).
Keep in mind that while you can justify using tower shields, you are not limited to them. Shield AC doesn't merge, so you can easily use a torch or large / small shields, if they have nice stats.
As for specific offhands: Pentavite shield from thids is cheap and effective, 100% electric is very nice for how easy it is to come by. Minauros flags are a step up from that: there is one for each element, so you can swap them to match the run, and people rarely pick them in splits, so fairly cheap as well. Pyroclastic Flow and Wings of the Storm are BUR shields with double immunities - if you get them nicely randomized, you can keep wearing them for long time. As far as higher end stuff goes, Abyssal Retort (vestige) is a decent pick for caster shifter: it has 2x 90%, daze immunity and couple other goodies. Mantelet of Repulsion (abo) is worth considering, if you are worried about kb.
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Post by boroie on Dec 18, 2021 23:47:56 GMT
Hey Everybody,Are there any must have tower shields for a shifter? If you ever get to the abyss, then the vestige towershield is almost a default pick for shifters. It has daze + 2 elements at 90% making it an amazing pick. wiki.hgweb.org/wiki/Abyssal_Retort |
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Post by jelricle on Dec 19, 2021 0:32:24 GMT
So . . . are all those tower shields that simpetar listed? Is it considered not worthwhile to give up tower shields and staves?
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Post by simpetar on Dec 19, 2021 0:40:36 GMT
Yes, they are tower shields, apart from Min flags - they are, well, flags. And no, it is hardly worthwhile going with gnome, unless you are making a shifterlash, which is a whole another build. Shifters already get enough skill points, even as humans. Being small will drastically cut your options for main hand and off hand gear.
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Post by jelricle on Dec 19, 2021 1:31:38 GMT
Oh my goodness! My anarch gnome test shifter loses the gnome constitution boost when shifted!!! (At least, I assume so, since my constitution drops by 2 when I shift!)
Forget that. Going back to human (Yes, xPrepx, I should have just trusted you, but I still wanted to play around a little. :-) )
BTW, what is everybody else's thoughts regarding listen and concentration skill levels for caster shifters?
(And why doesn't "spot" help against concealment? ;-) !
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Post by yune on Dec 19, 2021 4:43:02 GMT
If your shifter is large, you can use the Rona breach quarterstaff or that trident with immunity to transmutation plus a shield. Sadly there isn't a great race for it.
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Post by simpetar on Dec 19, 2021 11:21:58 GMT
BTW, what is everybody else's thoughts regarding listen and concentration skill levels for caster shifters Listen is useful, a number of shifter abilities are considered touch attack, whether ranged or melee. 40-50 hard points should be enough, high wisdom will take care of the rest. If you however aren't confident that you can get good gear with +skills, feel free to go all the way to 63. Concentration is useful as well, but don't fret about it. 20 points are usually enough to avoid the most common tank checks (and shifter are naturally immune to those, like concentration vs. disarm). A handful of your abilities are considered spells and can be interrupted by damage, for instance all rakshasa spells, crystal golem prismatic spray, baelnorn sunburst and positive strike and couple others. If you are worried about getting interrupted, feel free to invest more, but only AFTER you cover the essentials (animal empathy, hide, tumble, discipline, listen, craft armor and possibly parry, depending on the build) Because listen already does that  There are spot checks in the end game (gremlins jinxing your heal potions), but they are incredibly niche and not very difficult, so your wisdom + bard song should make you safe from them. |
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Post by magecat on Dec 20, 2021 2:42:30 GMT
Hey, don't undervalue Spot, it is a definite benefit to finding the doorknob for the Levitation ring...(/sarcasm)
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Post by boroie on Dec 20, 2021 8:18:12 GMT
Hey, don't undervalue Spot, it is a definite benefit to finding the doorknob for the Levitation ring...(/sarcasm) and the backdoor to gaobin! There is also at least one secret check requiring high spot in the desert to get to a secret area. But not much else currently. It does protect against pickpocket in the mod though, but without pvp thats restricted to the annoying mobs in pre-LLs I think. |
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There are spot checks in the end game (gremlins jinxing your heal potions), but they are incredibly niche and not very difficult, so your wisdom + bard song should make you safe from them.