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Post by jelricle on Dec 15, 2023 18:42:50 GMT
I was running an LL level with . . . I think it was Free . . . and I commented that I hoped they lower level toons would get XP. They responded that LL levels always give XP. I politely informed him that, in my inestimable experience, high level toons do not get experience from LL levels . . . only to be embarrassed when I started seeing XP values. Confused, I simply thought that I was, as usual, wrong. However, later, solo'ing, I was that I was no longer getting XP. Then I figured it out -- XP increases with larger party size. Ditto, for the scaling of mobs on maps that scale with party size. Having just one other person made Oinos interesting again! So, my proposal for those of us who do not multi box: - Allow pets to count as party members for scaling.
- Limit the count to one pet of each type within the party (Dominated, summoned, familiar, companion) and do not increase an overall party size beyond . . . 7? . . . 10?
I do not think this will be unbalancing because . . . well . . . most pets kinda suck. Sure there is BBoD, but if somebody puts in the effort to keep normal pets alive from spawn to spawn, they probably deserve a bit of extra XP (And if the map gives a higher spawn rate, it will be even more difficult to keep the darn things alive!)
I think it would add to options for players without unbalancing the gam, and it would level the playing field a bit for boxers and non-boxers.
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Post by chirality on Dec 16, 2023 2:50:07 GMT
xp and loot drops increase with party size, to a max of 10. for a long time multiboxed toons did count for this calculation.
multiboxing beyond 1 bot does not increase xp or loot anymore. this was updated/nerfed back in 2018, so that any additional accounts beyond 2, attached to the same IP, aren't respected.
in other words, any number of accounts on the same IP only provide the boost of 1 additional player. you need "actual" players to have the effective party size get beyond 2.
without context, it's unclear what your example anecdote refers to. what do you mean by "high level toons do not experience from LL levels" and "later, solo'ing, I saw that I was no longer getting XP"
what level is the toon, and what run? what level was the other player's toon(s)?
your example seems to indicate that the same run where you get zero xp solo, you got xp with the other player, which (assuming he was multiboxing) would be a +2 player/20% xp increase for a total of 3 players vs your 1 player solo. what are the variables here?
as for the suggestion, i understand the motivation. feeling like you have to multibox or feeling like you're punished for not doing so is frustrating.
however, using summons to artificially boost your xp count is even more meta-game-y and contrived than having bots do it.
i don't think this would be much of a solution to any problem. the problem being...we aren't getting as much xp solo as we'd like...which is primarily a symptom of the fact that the module is designed for party play.
i don't think this wouldn't level any playing field, either.
your idea is fun, but i think a simpler and cleaner approach would make more sense.
i would support a flat +10% boost to true soloers just because why not at this point, but linking it to keeping summons alive is a waste of time.
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Post by jelricle on Dec 16, 2023 4:40:36 GMT
I do not know the percentages, but yes. My toon is level 79. I did not get any XP when solo running Pyramid, toyshop, sissy, Uro nor, I think, Thids and PoM. But when one other person was with me, I did get xp for toyshop and Vashyk/Dustbone
In all honesty, I care more about scaling the spawns than I do about XP. :-D I really enjoyed having more of a challenge and variety in Oinos.
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Post by chirality on Dec 16, 2023 14:49:27 GMT
my hypothesis for why you wouldn't receive any xp in such runs is because your toon suffers a massive xp pen (incidentally, another reason i recommended undying for your build).
i have never played a toon with a 40% xp pen myself at LLs which is probably why i didn't think about it until now, but i can't think of any other explanation.
in this case, i think the issue you are having is a direct result of your choice to play the game in a particular way. much like your build itself, which could be "solved" by simply playing with a bot account, you have made decisions to make things very difficult.
i didn't mention it above, because both soloers and multiboxers benefit from it equally, but there is also a "phantom player" system which adds additional effective partycount based on the overall player population across all servers. we have been benefiting from this essentially 24/7 for many years now, as even with "bots" the count is very low.
in other words, even when you are truly "sdoloing" you have, at just about any given time and day, been receiving extra % xp anyway just because the game is so dead. even still, you are playing a build with an extreme xp penalty, and it's true that L60+ toons don't receive much xp from most mobs in most LL runs (however, sissy and toyshop are a far cry from pom and thids, and i do have trouble understanding how you would be getting 0 xp in thids even with your xp pen).
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Post by jelricle on Dec 16, 2023 15:50:25 GMT
Sure, that makes sense. Like I said, I am more interested in having mobs scale when they spawn. It would be nice if I could bump up Oinos and archives (and have the additional challenge of protecting my pets and companions) Any bonus XP would just be a cherry on top :-D
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Post by chainlink on Dec 18, 2023 15:30:52 GMT
You like shackling don't you, this definitely has an effect on xp gained from some areas.
If you want to do some testing try playing somewhere relatively easy to get to and do it at different shackled levels then it should be relatively simple to identify if there are differences in the xp gained from creatures.
In the long run it is unlikely to really matter as it's very unlikely to get changed but it might help you pinpoint what is causing it for you.
Obviously if you had something else (without a colossal xp penalty) you could do the same with this character to gain more data.
I regularly run large groups of characters at various levels in LL zones some with penalties and some with bonus classes and I can say with a degree of confidence I've never got 0xp for any creatures (excluding those that give none because they are summons).
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 18, 2023 16:17:56 GMT
i have never played a toon with a 40% xp pen myself at LLs which is probably why i didn't think about it until now, but i can't think of any other explanation. Just FYI the penalty is 20% per class and prestige classes never count. So a Shifter would never be more than 20% penalty but a Ranger/Monk/Barbarian could get up to 40% if 1 or more classes are within 1 level of each other you don't get penalized. I believe your favored class is also excluded from counting when figuring the penalty so it is hard to hit the 40% penalty. I have never done an LL run and gotten 0 exp but I also don't have anything above low 70s currently either so not sure how much it trails off once you get up there. I also have few to no toons with a penalty and have boxes to aid in the exp field which once I hit L80 won't matter but anything not L80 will want exp whenever it can.
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Post by chainlink on Dec 18, 2023 17:19:50 GMT
Even a level 80 still gets xp in all of the LL zones I've played them in.
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Post by chirality on Dec 19, 2023 2:39:48 GMT
Just FYI the penalty is 20% per class and prestige classes never count. correct So a Shifter would never be more than 20% penalty incorrect, and his build shows why his build is druid/rog/shifter, and his subrace is sidhe, which has FC ranger
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Post by chirality on Dec 19, 2023 4:15:20 GMT
Just FYI the penalty is 20% per class and prestige classes never count. correct So a Shifter would never be more than 20% penalty incorrect, and his build shows why his build is druid/rog/shifter, and his subrace is sidhe, which has FC ranger edit: that's wrong, and you're right. in that case i am back to square one on how he was receiving 0 xp on an LL run. jelricle, are you sure about that? it doesn't seem possible
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Post by chainlink on Dec 19, 2023 7:48:02 GMT
My money would be on your fetish for shackling everywhere, I bet if you go to Uro (the easiest place to try it out) at level 79 unshackled and solo you get xp.
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Post by Yojimbo on Dec 19, 2023 15:17:19 GMT
I don't shackle much either never thought it would have a negative impact on XP but yeah shackling certainly may be an impact and he does get a 20% exp penalty so there is a few things going into it the equation here.
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Post by Master Jaxx on Dec 19, 2023 15:34:54 GMT
You won't get xp shackled on LL runs if your toon that is shackled is above lvl 65 normally (from my experience of farming toyshop to death awhile ago with some scrub sorcs). So a lvl 79 probably won't get xp while shackled in pretty much all the LLs runs I'd guess. He does it to get into the secret areas which are lvl capped around 57 or below depending on the area. Then ofc shackling for beholders and pyramid tags...no xp provided to scrubs in need of the tag much later in life.
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Post by chainlink on Dec 19, 2023 15:51:01 GMT
I knew from experience that high levels get no XP when shackling to help on Lolth/Immo but as I cba to shackle for other runs I wasn't sure so that answers the question.
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Post by chirality on Dec 19, 2023 18:22:52 GMT
yes, if jelricle was shackled at the times he was receiving 0 xp, that definitely explains it.
shackling absolutely cripples xp gain for the shackled toon.
had a good chuckle re-reading a thread about this from a long time ago...
anyway, mystery solved
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