AB Requirement?

[irongolem]

Hey eveyone out there
Probably not the best spot to put this kinda thread, but I was wondering what kind of AB a melee-centric fighter should focus on getting to cope in most areas? Bear in mind I have no clue (yet) as to what weapon enhancement shoots up to on the server; so I'd be looking for target naked+armed with unenhanced chosen weapon if possible

[hfb]

Greetings,

The real answer for a ftr type is as much as at all possible. Every last +1 counts cause the ones at the top end are the hardest to get. The only possible downside to this is kickback dmg, like when the health on my tank yo-yos becuase I am dual weilding and basically every hit is landing. However, of problems for a ftr type to have, this is a really good one.

The short answer is, IMHO, low to mid 60s by lvl 40 (this assumes +12 to stats, and a good weapon, but not +13 from gmw)

so for instance:
30 -- base attack bonus (straight ftr ab progression for levels
1-20)
9 -- weapon bonus from Moad
4 -- feats = wf, ewf, e.prow
19 -- dex or str (base of 20 + 12 from items + 10 stat pts + 6
feats= 48 by lvl 40)
62 -- total

Possible add ons: +7 from Cleric Epic spell (+16 weapon), +4 from buffed gmw (+13 to weapon), prayer, bless, war cry, other spells, bard song (maxes weapon bonus at +20), wm lvls: 5 = +1, 10 = +2, 13 = +3, 16= +4, etc.

@60th lvl:
30 -- base attack bonus (straight ftr ab progression for levels
1-20) (same as 1-40)
20 -- weapon bonus w/ buffing/barding
4 -- feats = wf, ewf, e.prow (same as 1-40)
27 -- dex or str wraith, tiefling elf/halfling, 1/2 ogre, mino, etc.
(base of 22 + 12 from items + 20 stat pts +10 feats= 64 @60)
81 -- total (+4 with RDD str, +some more with wm, etc.)

For "naked" numbers take away the item mods for str/dx and the magical weapon bonuses.

I hope this helps.

Cheers,

The Dancer

[FunkySwerve]

The most important thing to remember is that ab-increasing spells are capped at +20, and that includes weapon enhancemnt/attack bonuses. If you have a +19 weapon, for example, the most you would be able to gain from casting all the cleric's ab-boosting spells would be +1.
Funky

[irongolem]

Thanks for your replies!
hfb: thanks, helps a bit to see what some use to hit the high mobs.
funky: thanks for the input and clarification.

If I understand correctly, would that mean for general melee I should only consider high-fightertype-class blends [eg f20-rog13-wm7]; as opposed to more flexible builds that end up with less than 30 base ab (eg Rog26-monk6-fighter8)?

Sorry if I sound a bit dense, just trying to understand what will pull it's own weight in battle on HG..

[hiryuu]

It means that flexibility comes at a cost, as it should in any reasonably balanced game. You will have a lower hit rate with a lower AB but, if you dual-wield or hit harder or have other skills, maybe that's not a problem.

[hfb]

Greetings,

@funky--yeah, I did sort of hide that in the fine print. Thanks for picking that one up for me.

@irongolem--hiryuu is exactly right and I would add that it is not required to have the absolute best possible ab to be highly effective as a ftr-type. IMHO, and there are much better character builders out there as you can see for yourself from the chara builds postings and from which I have learned some nifty tricks, when you get to 70, you are all set regarding ab as a ftr. All set is not just "coping" as per your initial post, but combat effective. This is not to say that more is not better in some cases, since ab decreases with each attack, more on the top end makes for more on the bottom too for more total hits per round. Also, if you dual weild, the higher your intial number the better it is after paying the ab price for the off hand attacks.

My main ftr-type traded some ab for Self Concealment 5, but she still has an ab of like 72 or so at lvl 53 or there abouts. As you can see, I have sorta stopped tracking the actual numbers because they have shown themselves to be enough. Maybe I am too lax on that front, but she does her job pretty well and I have a blast playing her.

In general, on this server, it is really good to do one thing really really well and look to your party to fill in the rest. With ftr-types there are two basic kinds: dexers and str-based. The primary job of the dexer is to be the grand absorber of attacks--to take as much heat as possible off the rest of the party so that they can do their stuff, like cast and stay alive. The dexer can also do a lot of dmg while fulfilling their primary roll. The str-based tank is more of a basher, a damage inflicter on the sides of the battle rather than in the thick of things. Both are a good time imo.

Cheers,

The Dancer

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Wow. 81 AB is more than enough to hit me regularly *without* the -40 guild AC reducer.

I am now scared :/

[hfb]

@ Delf: ROFL!!! As if a lone ftr-type could cause you problems even with an ab as high as top end mobs, say 110+. Nope, not buying it; but nice try to lure us tank-ity-tank meatshields into an ill-gotten sense of self-assuradness. I have no doubt, none whatsoever, that you could squash any given melee specialist even a fully buffed, completely decked out, LL60. But, then, what do I know? Prolly just a bit slap-happy from taking the poundings that make the artillery fall all that much faster!!! Yee-Haw!!!

Cheers,

The Dancer

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Well...don't be so sure. Tanks with a monk side are immune to most of my offensives, since they tend to have saves designed to hit the 60 DC of ssithrak and almost all damage oriented spells are reflex saves. And no PC caster DC can touch a +60 save. Plus, death magic immunity is a staple of the average PC diet, so no wails. Neg pots take care of fingers and wilting. Fiesh to stone runs into the fact that the high end tank PC has a better fort save than the DC, especially if they're a STR type.

Pretty much the only thing I have that is guaranteed to do damage are greater ruin, missle barrage, and starfire. And if a PC has enough hps to soak those damages...then he can heal when the TS wears off and I'm out of useful offensives.

And since my fort save stinks, Dev Crit can probably oneshot me, once you hit the 90% conceal. And chances are I'd run out of spells before you run out of swinging.

So...don't be so sure that a caster is a winner every time Certain build types can really ruin my day.

(Though, I'm the first to admit that a non-evasion class is probably going to die very badly...its all a question of whether or not I can kill them during time stop, since any PC alive has more healing potions than I have spells.)

[archmage]

Delf, repeat after me. A Legendary mage, particularly upper lvls should NEVER lose to a melee build, ever.

[calad]

archmage said:

Delf, repeat after me. A Legendary mage, particularly upper lvls should NEVER lose to a melee build, ever.

LOL especially when casting scrolls is screwed up. With scrolls melee types have a chance, a small one, but a chance

[archmage]

Rogues arent melee types, they're illithid bait.

[Balduvard]

archmage said:

Pure rogues arent melee types, they're illithid bait.

Fixed.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

Well, then, enlighten me Sorceress...what would you do with a melee build with a 60 reflex save and evasion immune to death magic...

Other than wiltings and FoD while timestopped following starfire and barrage? I mean, I'm not saying that if properly spell prepared I won't absolutely ruin the first tank that comes after me. And probably the second. And if they're not evasion oriented, they're probably going to die also.

I'm just saying that someone with evasion and absurd reflex saves isn't a pushover to a wiz, as long as their shadow packs and heals don't run out before my spells do.

(A Legendary mage, particularly upper lvls should NEVER lose to a melee build, ever. A Legendary mage, particularly upper lvls should NEVER lose to a melee build, ever. A Legendary mage, particularly upper lvls should NEVER lose to a melee build, ever...)

[doomsdaybringer]

--"Fiesh to stone runs into the fact that the high end tank PC has a better fort save than the DC, especially if they're a STR type."--

st tanks dont always have high fort save............Hitokiri had more relfex save then fort if he doesnt use slag.
fort save is base one's CON not STR. the difference bouse save between low fort classes(pure) and high fort save class(pure) is only 6...

---"Other than wiltings and FoD while timestopped following starfire and barrage? I mean, I'm not saying that if properly spell prepared I won't absolutely ruin the first tank that comes after me. And probably the second. And if they're not evasion oriented, they're probably going to die also. "----

able to kill two tank in one rest isnt enough? how many do want to kill?O.O