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Post by pawn on May 7, 2006 22:08:20 GMT
Does the AB added by the spell count against the +20 maximum?
-Pawn
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 7, 2006 22:37:46 GMT
Yup. Funky
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Post by amber on May 8, 2006 18:52:04 GMT
Sorry had to add my question to this post, because the new post button gets blocked at my work. This has probably been brought up many times before, but is there a way that sorcerers can rearrange their spells after lvl 40. On other servers I have seen pots that let you reallocate them, but havent seen anything here yet. Is this a possibility for the future? Especially with spell changes being frequent over time.
Thanks Amber
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Post by Ironfang on May 8, 2006 18:54:54 GMT
Cool question, I didn't think there would be a way to do this for Sorcerers. How did these potions work? Not the technical script side, just from a user perspective.
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 8, 2006 18:59:40 GMT
Yes, that's interesting, because I'm not aware of any way to do that. I'll look into it. Thanks, Funky
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Post by Phantanya on May 8, 2006 19:34:41 GMT
oooo that would be ever so nice....expecially if you could swing it for bards too
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 8, 2006 19:51:56 GMT
Bleh, you're all just wannabe wizards.
Smaller spell selection is the price you pay for more spells per day than I can ever have, and never running out of a specific one until you're tapped.
I say TTTHHHHHPPPPP to re-switching spells.
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Post by archmage on May 8, 2006 20:34:02 GMT
I dont think you'd ever see sorcerors being able to change spells constantly on this server, because (and it pains me to say this as an unashamed sorceror fan) spell choice flexibility is the wizard's cache, and this shouldnt change. What you arent taking into account is the fact that there are some lvl 60 sorcs running around, like Deva for example, that picked their spells from the list when she hit lvl 40, now 6 months later, I'm lvl 60, and I'm stuck with my choices, which were the best for my character at that time. With so many constant spell changes being made, sorcs are basically being punished. I think a way to let them reselect their spells on a VERY limited basis would be a great boon for the sorcs. I might recommend once per update with spell changes, if even that frequently. Keep in mind, this wont give them a chance to really rewrite their characters as their stuck with the feats they've selected. this will prevent Deva for example from taking stone to flesh, as my dc wouldnt be anything to boast about, and as such would still be worthless. also sorcs dont have even half the bonus feats wizards do, so its not really possible for sorcs to have the dc required to land spells in very many schools. It would be nice tho to have the ability to cast cloud of bewilderment for example though, since when I made my final choice for Deva, that spell was still worthless. Think about that for a second Delf, think about how long ago that means I made my choices, yet am still forced to live with them. and those choices were made with the latest information at my fingertips at my time of choosing. Since then we've seen how many spell changes? Maybe have an option to only do it twice per character, forever. Like I said, I dont want to be able to change my spells anytime I want, and this will never happen on HG. But being able to choose my spells based on a current spelllist would be most appealing to the high lvl legendary sorcs, versus having to live with decisions made with incomplete and sometimes just straight incorrect info at the time of choosing.
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Post by Grogbot on May 8, 2006 21:39:19 GMT
Think about that for a second Delf, think about how long ago that means I made my choices, yet am still forced to live with them. and those choices were made with the latest information at my fingertips at my time of choosing. How are these choices different from any other caster who specialised in schools (focus feats) later to find that spells had been modified? Or found that new Epic spells were available if they had made different choices? Or any characters who find that a subsequent secret is out of their reach since they took too few levels in the pre-requisites? Or fighter types who focussed on a weapon to find that there are new better weapons in the newest areas or when Random Loot was introduced? I thought the general argument was "XP is relatively easy to come by, items are the part of all builds, so start again!" - although I appreciate that for L60s that argument is perhaps a little flawed Grog PS I do have some sympathy, I have a really old sorceror who was built before (!!!) cloud / persistent AoE spells were re-introduced into the mod ... so she doesn't get played much, and she is not L60 of course!
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Post by doomsdaybringer on May 8, 2006 22:24:25 GMT
Bleh, you're all just wannabe wizards. Smaller spell selection is the price you pay for more spells per day than I can ever have, and never running out of a specific one until you're tapped. I say TTTHHHHHPPPPP to re-switching spells. more spells per day? are u refering the extra two spell per slot over wiz at lvl 20?? i dont think that 2 more spell slot hardly matter with dachy gear.....
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Post by archmage on May 8, 2006 22:28:26 GMT
This is true Grog, but with fighters, every weapon is now VERY well represented, with DB, Ssith, Moad and Random weapons, if you dont have a good one for your character, go get one. sorcs cant just go out and find their new weapon. As for the feat issues, we've made so many different spells viable now, that you can certainly find a spell within your chosen schools that will work on enemies at higher lvls. And to be honest, this is the perfect reason to redo the spells, so I'm not really sure how this speaks against the proposed change.
Edited to add:
As for the characters who built their characters then found out they dont have enough lvls for a secret, those secrets are designed to make sure they only work for pure or mostly pure classes. Sorcs have always been designed for one thing, to cast spells.
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Post by Lord FlashHeart on May 9, 2006 8:16:42 GMT
I agree arch, it makes me laugh when people ask my sorc for a GMW and I tell them 'sorry, dont have it.' Usually I get a response of 'wha?' At the time I made my final spell selection it was before random loot and legendary levels, at the time the best weapons available were the MOAD ones which were all +9 and I didnt see the point in keeping GMW for the sake of +1 enhance
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Post by Ralkain on May 9, 2006 12:30:29 GMT
Bleh, you're all just wannabe wizards. Smaller spell selection is the price you pay for more spells per day than I can ever have, and never running out of a specific one until you're tapped. I say TTTHHHHHPPPPP to re-switching spells. more spells per day? are u refering the extra two spell per slot over wiz at lvl 20?? i dont think that 2 more spell slot hardly matter with dachy gear..... He's not talking about 2 extra spells, he's talking about Wiz's needing to pick their spells. I agree having 20 versus 22 L4 spells a day isn't a big deal. However, being able to spend those 22 a day on any of the 4 spells you know instead of having to pick how many of each spell you'll need that day is the advantage. It can be all 22 in a single spell or spread out, Wiz's have to decide ahead of time and of course are often wrong in what they needed. Having played a Sorc here past 40 many times, I know their limitations on spell selections, but its not really that bad. I only feel the pain at L9 when I have to pick 3 out of Mords, TS, Wail, and MS. The pain on other levels is minimal, you get the top 3-4 spells at that level which is usually good enough. Of course you feel it when you need to have a certain spell selection to open a certain door which will remain nameless for those who don't know, but that's what Wiz's and scrolls are for . The same applies on major spell changes, it messes up a Sorc much more. DDO is allowing 1 Sorc/Bard spell change/3 days at a gp cost. It would be nice if LL sorcs could have an option to swap spells out on a limited basis. Maybe some item they could quest/trade for that has a counter like the new races and allow them to spend a counter to swap a spell? Might be hard to implement, but if it could it would be nice. Of course an item or items that give you a bonus spell known at certain levels would be nice too, but again difficult I know. Dave.
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on May 9, 2006 15:17:23 GMT
I dont think you'd ever see sorcerors being able to change spells constantly on this server, because (and it pains me to say this as an unashamed sorceror fan) spell choice flexibility is the wizard's cache, and this shouldnt change. What you arent taking into account is the fact that there are some lvl 60 sorcs running around, like Deva for example, that picked their spells from the list when she hit lvl 40, now 6 months later, I'm lvl 60, and I'm stuck with my choices, which were the best for my character at that time. With so many constant spell changes being made, sorcs are basically being punished. I think a way to let them reselect their spells on a VERY limited basis would be a great boon for the sorcs. I might recommend once per update with spell changes, if even that frequently. Keep in mind, this wont give them a chance to really rewrite their characters as their stuck with the feats they've selected. this will prevent Deva for example from taking stone to flesh, as my dc wouldnt be anything to boast about, and as such would still be worthless. also sorcs dont have even half the bonus feats wizards do, so its not really possible for sorcs to have the dc required to land spells in very many schools. It would be nice tho to have the ability to cast cloud of bewilderment for example though, since when I made my final choice for Deva, that spell was still worthless. Think about that for a second Delf, think about how long ago that means I made my choices, yet am still forced to live with them. and those choices were made with the latest information at my fingertips at my time of choosing. Since then we've seen how many spell changes? Maybe have an option to only do it twice per character, forever. Like I said, I dont want to be able to change my spells anytime I want, and this will never happen on HG. But being able to choose my spells based on a current spelllist would be most appealing to the high lvl legendary sorcs, versus having to live with decisions made with incomplete and sometimes just straight incorrect info at the time of choosing. I can agree with some of what you say, yes. Its likely one reason I see basically NO sorcerers at high levels any more, when it used to be nothing but Sorc/Pal/Monks and no wizards except me...is the shifting applicability of spells. However, *all* classes made pre LL are stuck with their choices - feats and stat adjustments most notably, and spells for Sorc and Bard. If you allow Sorcerers made pre-spell shift to re-select spells, you'd have to do the same for bards, since they're in the same boat. And if you do that, one can make strong arguments to allow pre-LL characters to shift their feats around to allow for a new character plan taking another 20 levels into account. Or you could make a good argument for letting ALL casters re-shift their feats around for the uncapped spells, to opt to take more focuses - or let clerics and druids made pre-super-epics re-feat themselves so they can take advantage of the super-epic spells the way they'd like. Where would it end? With a line in front of the DM? With Funky having to create a de-LL script? Yes, it totally sucks to find your character choices make you useless as the server progresses. And it sucks to realize that if you want to optimize yourself, you lose your name and your exp when you have to make a new character. But it may be fairer in the long run to not alter anybody, than to open the door and allow alterations of everybody when big changes hit. After all, a build that functions at 40 may be completely combat ineffective at 60, but we didn't allow character alteration during a larger change that effected more people...why allow it during a change that effects less people? Especially when they have the (sucky) option of making a new character to replace their old one (and losing their name)?
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Post by FunkySwerve on May 9, 2006 16:09:30 GMT
And if you do that, one can make strong arguments to allow pre-LL characters to shift their feats around to allow for a new character plan taking another 20 levels into account. Or you could make a good argument for letting ALL casters re-shift their feats around for the uncapped spells, to opt to take more focuses - or let clerics and druids made pre-super-epics re-feat themselves so they can take advantage of the super-epic spells the way they'd like. For the record, saying that you could make a strong argument for something, and then not making it, tends to indicate that you can't. The point here is that sorcs are at a rather unique disadvantage here, which is why a unique solution makes sense. Bards aren't in this boat - their spell selection is from a much narrower range, and the last update didn't do much to alter their spell selection priorities. Funky
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