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Post by Dannecrot on Jun 24, 2006 21:52:29 GMT
liesmith - I agree with you 100%. All I'm saying is, try at least to take the DM's words into consideration - they did after all create the module. Beta testers should know that they are beta testers, that there are bugs, and that they shouldn't write things in such a negative way. Almost every post in this forum is people telling the DM's they think they know how to run HG better. I just think when posting a problem on a forum for a beta server you shouldn't be so aggressive. Sorry if I came off misunderstood here, of course you can argue with the DM's who made the module, but if they give you advice or try to assist you with something regarding their world - listen to them!
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Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jun 25, 2006 0:18:18 GMT
Speaking as a wizard, I have to say that it is completely feasible to function without the autocaster.
Personally, I have all of my buffs listed on my third hotkey page, all the time. Granted, there have been times where gear or zone meant I had to expand past that, or drop some of my 3 shields to make room, or use one from the wheel...but it certainly isn't impossible or even difficult to get them there and still have a useable spelllist.
In fact, my combat spells only occupy my first hotkey page 90% of the time, and my second is reserved for epics/superepics/epics from items/and heal potions and res scrolls.
I do have to do rings and pc scry from the inventory though, manually, which isn't so bad.
And as to the Pocket - there should be a statue there to me after all the time I've been stuck up there. It used to be that if TS was cast by ANYONE while you were up there, you got stuck. Fun in the drow, no? Also, you can in fact use your own teleport stone to warp back to town from the pocket dimension. And any caster who hasn't got a teleport stone or 8 (number I used to carry regularly) needs to stock them for resting purposes.
I know it sucks to get stuck there during a run, but another thing you can do is stay calm, sit tight, and hop between the servers looking for a DM to bring you down and put you back into the run. Most of them are happy to do so when needed.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 25, 2006 0:37:12 GMT
It's hard to empathize with someone who complains for the sake of complaining. When Pathogen makes a pretty legitimate complaint about a frustrating bug, though, he is met with condescension. Why is that? His complaints are pretty reasonable for the most part. 'His' complaints were overblown and ill-considered. He presented them in an offensive way, and ignored the carefully reasoned responses he got. Reasonable? Hah. And for the record, joining a forum and posting for the first time just to defend someone who's made an ass of themselves, is an excellent way to make peolple think that you are the same person posting under different names to try to lend yourself some credibility. In the future, I would recommend signing up at least three accounts well in advance, and using them once or twice beforehand, because it's pretty transparent otherwise. Funky
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Post by gruntgruntson on Jun 25, 2006 1:30:34 GMT
I have just got my 1st Wizard to Immortal , and am still struggling to juggle all my quick-slots, needed-spells, buffs, etc. 36 quickslots? it seems like a joke, but i'm sure i'll squeeze everything in! ;o) The point about the autocaster/pocket-dimension does need thinking about (something I'm sure the DMs have alreay done). I've been watchign mages ring-rest, and wondering how it works ... I now see that there is EXACTLY enough time to recover from combat (Exerting yourself) and rest, before being transported back to where you were. No casting, no buffing, no nothing. Rest and return. Once back, obviously you have no buffs, as you have just rested. Usually, a quick toot on the auto-caster would fix this. When combat is still happening it does not. Yes, GS should give you enough time to manually cast the buffs, but my main problem is that having been spoilt by having an auto-caster, I don't have them quick-slotted, and find manually going through and even remembering which buffs can be irritating. I would definately prefer it if the auto-caster worked during combat. Back to the original point about casting in the pocket dimension - maybe a note somewhere (on ring, in pocket, on auto-caster) saying "REST ONLY - NO CASTING, NO NOTHING - REST AND RETURN" would help? As I say, 1st mage, so probably a lot I don;t know yet (I hope so! If ya can power-lvl a mage to 40 and thats all there is, I'd be very disappointed!LOL). IANADM, IANASW (I Am Not A DM, I Am Not A Script Writer). I may not know my ass from a hole in the ground, but theres my opinions
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 25, 2006 3:12:58 GMT
I The point about the autocaster/pocket-dimension does need thinking about (something I'm sure the DMs have alreay done). I've been watchign mages ring-rest, and wondering how it works ... I now see that there is EXACTLY enough time to recover from combat (Exerting yourself) and rest, before being transported back to where you were. No casting, no buffing, no nothing. Rest and return. Actually, that's not the case. You can rest 1 second before you are slated to be ported back, and it will queue the return until after you finish. So you do have a few moments to swap slots, etc. No, because, again, we don't know that the autocaster is even related to the problem. If it turns out that it is, I will probably do just that, and set PPD as a dead magic zone, so that there's no incentive to try to buff in there. At least you know it's not for wearing on your head, which is more than some people can claim. Funky
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Post by jillybean on Jun 25, 2006 6:25:39 GMT
The problem with this feedback was not the bug, its the tone of the message.
Funky and the DMs are volunteers. Huge amount of time/effort. Deserve a little bit more courtesy then what was given.
When my neighbor lets me borrow his lawnmower and it breaks, I don't go back to him and say "now my grass will never be cut because of you, fix it immediately!" Its the same sorta thing here.
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Post by tweakzilla on Jun 25, 2006 10:46:05 GMT
And for the record, joining a forum and posting for the first time just to defend someone who's made an ass of themselves, is an excellent way to make peolple think that you are the same person posting under different names to try to lend yourself some credibility. In the future, I would recommend signing up at least three accounts well in advance, and using them once or twice beforehand, because it's pretty transparent otherwise. :-/Funky Maybe this is his third account, or maybe it's another regular from the Gamespy forums, who are currently having a great time with this mod. I just want to explain that Pathogen (or 'the hulk' as we refer to him behind his back) is not often proven wrong and is not used to being anything other than a big fish, and using that clout to force his arguments. Perhaps him putting things across too forcefully has raised some heckles and forced everyone onto the defensive, but he does make a good point - if this has happened before it would certainly be incredibly useful to place a warning. It wouldn't even have to be an OOC warning, you could warn casters that due to the unstable nature of the pocket, they cast at their own risk, alongside an explanation of the methods of how to get back to town (edit - or possibly a sign, or item in there that explains how to do so). Remember that while it may seem obvious to you to do these things, it wasn't to Pathogen at the time and i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be to me either. But what do I know, i'm just a big dumb tank.
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Post by pathogen on Jun 25, 2006 11:09:54 GMT
And for the record, joining a forum and posting for the first time just to defend someone who's made an ass of themselves, is an excellent way to make peolple think that you are the same person posting under different names to try to lend yourself some credibility. In the future, I would recommend signing up at least three accounts well in advance, and using them once or twice beforehand, because it's pretty transparent otherwise. :-/Funky Maybe this is his third account, or maybe it's another regular from the Gamespy forums, who are currently having a great time with this mod. I just want to explain that Pathogen (or 'the hulk' as we refer to him behind his back) is not often proven wrong and is not used to being anything other than a big fish, and using that clout to force his arguments. Perhaps him putting things across too forcefully has raised some heckles and forced everyone onto the defensive, but he does make a good point - if this has happened before it would certainly be incredibly useful to place a warning. It wouldn't even have to be an OOC warning, you could warn casters that due to the unstable nature of the pocket, they cast at their own risk, alongside an explanation of the methods of how to get back to town. Remember that while it may seem obvious to you to do these things, it wasn't to Pathogen at the time and i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be to me either. But what do I know, i'm just a big dumb tank. For the record, nobody but Tweak calls me the Hulk. And he's just jealous because whenever we argue, I win, clout or not. I still feel a "Cast at your own risk" warning is in order.
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Post by reuben on Jun 25, 2006 11:20:53 GMT
Tweak, Liesmith, Pathogen, and myself really are from GameSpy, infact we've made a topic on Neverwinter Nights that spans over 31 pages long.
Doh, Tweak already linked it.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 25, 2006 16:06:35 GMT
Perhaps him putting things across too forcefully has raised some heckles and forced everyone onto the defensive, but he does make a good point - if this has happened before it would certainly be incredibly useful to place a warning. That explains some of his behavior, but it certainly doesn't excuse it. As for me, there is a world of difference between being on the defensive and being forced to repeat yourself because posters are just shooting their mouths off instead of reading and responding accordingly: It wouldn't even have to be an OOC warning, you could warn casters that due to the unstable nature of the pocket, they cast at their own risk, alongside an explanation of the methods of how to get back to town (edit - or possibly a sign, or item in there that explains how to do so). Remember that while it may seem obvious to you to do these things, it wasn't to Pathogen at the time and i'm pretty sure that it wouldn't be to me either. It's unrelated to casting spells as near as we've been able to tell. As far as the bug, as I already explained, we don't know what causes it, so it's kinda difficult to 'warn' people about in any helpful manner. What would you do, anyway, not rest in the Abyss? Guys, please read and consider the posts before responding. I've already addressed those points. As for the bug sign, again, there's little point to 'warning' people about something if you can't tell them how to avoid the danger. No, because, again, we don't know that the autocaster is even related to the problem. If it turns out that it is, I will probably do just that, and set PPD as a dead magic zone, so that there's no incentive to try to buff in there. I'm glad you like the mod. If you want me to continue to respond to your input, you need to start paying attention to my responses. Funky
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Post by pathogen on Jun 26, 2006 2:27:22 GMT
If you set the pocket as a dead magic zone, my feeling is that it would probably reduce incident of this already rare, but in my opinion serious, bug. I'm also inclined to believe it very much has to do with casting, or perhaps queuing actions in general, inside the pocket.
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Post by Balduvard on Jun 26, 2006 2:43:58 GMT
If my stock triples after I kick the neighbor's cat, does that mean that the secret to success in the stock market is the abuse of your neighbor's animals? Just because something happens after you do something, it does not automatically mean that what you did caused the effect. That is what is reffered to as a Post Hoc logical fallacy.
In short, there are a lot of variables that could be coming into play to cause this bug...thus it would be frivolous to place in a safeguard to protect against a "possible cause" for this bug when we don't know for sure what the cause is.
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Post by pathogen on Jun 26, 2006 3:26:09 GMT
So maybe go through the trouble of testing it, instead of telling us you can't do anything because you can't be positive of anything?
Even a "known issues" page on the bulletin board would suffice. You're telling me it's too much trouble to have an "issues" area, even vague, somewhere on the server or message board?
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jun 26, 2006 5:30:05 GMT
So maybe go through the trouble of testing it, instead of telling us you can't do anything because you can't be positive of anything? Abos****inglutely brilliant idea. Maybe if you strain, you can figure out why we haven't yet. Could it maybe be related to the reason I suggested that you flag down a dm and test it yourself, if you wanted to be proactive and speed the process along? I'll save you the stress of thinking about it since lucid thought is obviously not one of your fortes: If I had wasted time trying to go back and fix every single minute problem that exists in the mod, we would still not have legendary levels, and neither would the community. Yes, I could've gone through all 36,000 words of dialogue in the mod, and added in all the missing apostrophes, but you know what? There's more important things to attend to in the module, let alone life. If I lived in some perfect world where I had unlimited amounts of time, I might consider it, because I am a bit of a closet perfectionist. But, in the real world, people have to prioritize, because time is limited. Go ask a grownup, they'll explain it to you. In short, because the bug is rare, and hard to track down, fixing it involves a great deal of work for reletively small gain. Thus, it's lower priority than many other things, including the new areas coming in tommorow's update. If it happened more often, or was easier to track down, it'd be fixed already. As more players encounter it, we get more information, and it will eventually, we hope, become easier to fix. This really isn't rocket science. No. I find it impossible to believe that you are really too dense to grasp what I'm saying, especially after I just resummarized with a postful of quotes. But I'll give you the benefit of the doubt, and resummarize, being as monosyllabic as possible. Then, I'm going to lock the thread, because either you are really incapable of understanding, or you are intent on trolling. Either way, the thread has no further purpose. Here goes: We do not know what makes people get stuck in the rest area. If we did it would be fixed. When we find out we will fix it. We can not warn people how not to get stuck, so there is no point. There, all one syllable. In biggely words, that means: there is no benefit to posting a warning, because there is no course of action we can suggest to avoid the bug, and people can't avoid using the pocket dimension to rest in no-rest zones like the abyss. It is one of any number of known issues for which there is simply no point in issuing a warning, because there is no action the player can take based on the information we can give them. Further, we try to avoid cluttering our boards with useless information, because it obfuscates the useful information already there. We already get complaints about the overwhelming amount of information a player is hit with on the server, and the last thing we need to do is pile more on, if it serves no purpose. It'd be similar to posting this warning: "If your character file is in the process of saving when a power outage strikes at our host's facility, there is a chance it will be corrupted." (this is true, by the way) People need to save their characters, they can't do anything to prevent the power outage, and saving less often as a preventative would result in far more data lost, on net. There's simply no point to posting such things. Get it? If not, too bad, because I've wasted enough breath on you. As an aside, if you have such a problem with being told that you're wrong, or being condescended to, you should really consider thinking before you post. *Locked* Funky
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