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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 22, 2007 17:25:57 GMT
One of the biggest problems I have with illegal immigrants is that they seem to have absolutely no desire to learn about our language or even our culture. Of course, that could be because they are too preoccupied with avoiding detection by l'Imigre. Or that we've told them that we don't want them here via the laws that make it illegal for them to be here. Or by trying to pass silly-ass resolutions declaring English to be the 'official language' when it already is. Or by exaggerating the risk of illegal immigration by hyping up the risk of infectious diseases from immigrants, just like was done with the Irish. Etc, etc, ad nauseaum. This, like gay rights, is one of history's no-brainers. A hundred years from now, people will be looking back and shaking their heads. And for the record, how many illegals do you know? Because out of the ones I met, they all spoke at least a little english. Funky
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Post by dodrudon on Aug 22, 2007 18:03:43 GMT
I think Klingon sounds fine! It's very... passionate....?
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Post by cathedralmaster on Aug 22, 2007 18:27:30 GMT
I think the hardest to learn would have to go to one of the obscure ancient languages.
Take Sumerian for example - as I understand it, it doesn't have just one but, the last I heard, at least two different accepted means of pronounciation which you need to know both of to have a discussion about it, has an incomplete vocabularly where the words that are known are often defined in paragraphs of analysis, and any translation requires what amounts to a doctoral paper where it's common to cite every known example of a particular word in order to argue that your translation of it is accurate.
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Post by wnxhalfwingseen on Aug 23, 2007 7:13:59 GMT
Thank you cath for having one paragraph that made my brain hurt T_T
Favorite English because well Im a songwriter/poet/actor and its just my favorite to write in Most Beautiful: The Language of Music is quite more pleasing to the ear and yes Music is a Language. Hardest: Pig Latin ( cant get that crap down no matter how hard i try)
And Amen Funky heheh ive only met two groups of illegal immigrants one wer eon tnhe streets of vegas passing out fliers for porn.. didnt care much for them. the others were building my house and i spoke to them for quite a while in spanish and they asked me to speak english because they needed practice and i oblidged them.
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Post by johannhowitzer on Aug 23, 2007 12:59:08 GMT
We have NOT passed laws that make it illegal for anybody to come here... what we have done is passed laws forbidding people to come here without going through the proper channels. I for one don't want anyone coming to my country illegally, just like I don't want people (including myself) committing other crimes. Plenty of people have come here legally, and I have respect for them. You know, I hadn't heard a word about the "infectious diseases" rumor you mention; where are you getting this from? ...At our country for not enforcing its own laws. "Gay rights" is one issue, treating those who disregard the laws of the land is another, and they should not be compared. All we're doing is weakening our own ethos in the eyes of the rest of the world by letting people cross our borders without permission. Sure, they can stay here, I have no problem with that, but they better go set things right, pronto. Don't claim I'm against "gay rights" because I'm not (not saying you did, this is pre-emptive), and since I'm a Christian that should surprise you a little - if you're talking about marriage, the idea of gay marriage is laughable since it's an issue of the church, not the state. The state has jurisdiction over civil unions (for things such as joint tax returns), and I have no problem with homosexuals establishing themselves as couples under the state. But no law can establish such a thing as a "gay marriage." Not that I don't want it to be done because it would be a travesty; it's simply an oxymoron, an absurdity! It has always been possible for a church to marry a gay couple, though most would have refused, the state has never had any say in that... but neither would the state have recognized the union. The two are independent of each other, and good luck passing a law that requires the church to recognize unions the state forms. The Constitution has something to say against that. (Though the Constitution also requires an amendatory convention with two thirds of the states' governments petitioning... and we have yet to see one actually happen...) You know, I don't know how many illegal immigrants I know. I'd imagine I know at least a couple, but nobody's ever told me they're here illegally before, for obvious reasons. I'm surprised you know of any. It was, at any rate, another mistake of mine to put the word "illegal" in that sentence you quoted. In my experience with Mexican immigrants in general, speaking of the ones who have lived here over a year, about half of them know enough English to hold even a mildly coherent casual conversation with me - even just passing the time or the weather. I guess it's more of a personal value I have to learn a language before I go somewhere, and there are a lot of people around the world who don't share that value. I would be just as annoyed with an American friend of mine for not learning French by the end of his first year of living in France (especially if I had to translate for him) as I am with the many Mexicans I've met who've been here for that long and still can't answer the question, "how are you?" But I was venting, and venting by its very nature ignores exceptions to the rule. I have plenty of respect for those who do learn the language or who bother to register here before moving in. And now... we're waaaaay off topic! Went from languages to illegal immigration and gay rights. You want to debate me on these points, probably best to start another thread. Back to languages! Yeah, I don't doubt that. I intentionally restricted my choices to "main" world languages, such as English, Spanish, French, German, Russian, etc. because there are just too many to choose from and it seems like we're talking about preference and realistic endeavor here. Most people wouldn't try to learn Sumerian, and aren't knowledgeable enough about it to say whether they like it or not. Plenty of people probably don't even known it exists.
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Post by booboospooki on Aug 23, 2007 13:23:02 GMT
If you're a fan of languages, but not necessarily a linguist, I recommend The Unfolding of Language (or also published as the Evolution of Language under the same author). He explains how language doesn't necessarily change for the worst and in his explanation dissects languages ranging from ancient Semitic to Japanese.
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Post by fierce illusions on Aug 23, 2007 15:06:04 GMT
Favorite Language: Italian/Sicillan [ Fluent ] Beautiful Language: French Ugly Language: German Easiest: Sign Language =P [ Fluent ] Hardest to Pronounce / Speak / Understand: Russian
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Post by Breña on Aug 23, 2007 15:29:07 GMT
Hardest to Pronounce / Speak / Understand: Russian Vse ljudi roždajutsya svobodnymi i ravnymi v svoem dostoinstve i pravax. Oni nadeleny razumom i sovest'ju i dolžny postupat' v otnošenii drug druga v duxe bratstva!
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Post by fierce illusions on Aug 23, 2007 16:50:23 GMT
Hardest to Pronounce / Speak / Understand: Russian Vse ljudi roždajutsya svobodnymi i ravnymi v svoem dostoinstve i pravax. Oni nadeleny razumom i sovest'ju i dolžny postupat' v otnošenii drug druga v duxe bratstva! what?!?! yeah, lol Breña, i don't understand what you are saying .. truth is my great-grandmother is slovakian =] thats all i know what language it is. heh
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Post by kaldair on Aug 23, 2007 22:08:19 GMT
I'm leaning toward Slovenian - Maybe a proverb? First sentence I can't decipher ;< Second sentence about Those with a poor understanding becoming a debtor (then it breaks up) ending with something about being within a brotherhood? C'mon Breña give up the translation!!! =)
Kaldair
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Post by bhao on Aug 23, 2007 22:39:04 GMT
just google it it is russian
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Post by cathedralmaster on Aug 23, 2007 23:05:21 GMT
Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article I: Все люди рождаются свободными и равными в своем достоинстве и правах. Они наделены разумом и совестью и должны поступать в отношении друг друга в духе братства.
All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.
Hooray for Google.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 24, 2007 0:47:42 GMT
You know, I hadn't heard a word about the "infectious diseases" rumor you mention; where are you getting this from? Are you kidding? Lou Dobbs even did a bit on the Immigrant 'disease scare'. Here: www.youtube.com/results?search_query=immigrant+diseaseSome idiot was ranting about them spreading leprosy on CNN at some point as well, not sure if in that report or another, but they were roundly mocked on the Daily Show for getting the number of incoming immigrants with leprosy wrong by several orders of magnitude. Why on earth not? They are both founded in part on discrimination, which is of course WHY history will be shaking its head. Yes, immigration is a problem, but if you don't think discrimination is a factor in the immigration debate you really need to take a closer look. The economics involved are also fascinating, with businesses benefitting enormously from keeping these people in 'illegal' status. The parallels with past immigration debates are many and glaring. Funky
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Post by johannhowitzer on Aug 24, 2007 2:00:25 GMT
Nah, I'm not kidding, I honestly hadn't heard anyone mention diseases in conjunction with illegal immigration. And I haven't been hiding under a rock, either, I've been looking into the issue online and through interviews on TV. Hehe, I love the Daily Show! Shame we don't get cable or I'd watch it regularly instead of just in bites on YouTube.
You know, I really hadn't gotten the sense that people at large are discriminating against illegal aliens, aside from the occasional wacky pundit or doomsayer, or the occasional church who for some reason feel the need to betray Christ's teachings by persecuting them. (Didn't we learn that persection is bad already? Maybe such churches should be put back in the arena with the lions for a few days...) But I suppose that's no different than the "gay rights" issue... my point was regarding governmental policy, not public behavior or misbehavior, and on the policy side of the coin the two are very, very different. Homosexual people are not breaking any sort of law of the land.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Aug 24, 2007 2:18:39 GMT
Actually in many states sodomy was illegal until the SC addressed it in the Texas case. And yes, not all homosexuals engage in sodomy, but there are still MANY discriminatory laws on the books. And then there's the whole marriage issue, lolz. But this is straying far from the original topic. Funky
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