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Post by thedomicron on Nov 27, 2006 20:42:46 GMT
right now there are only three ring pedastals, and only 2 of those are usable by high level mages. dustbone, beholders, pryamid, as long as you're not farming those runs (beholders maybe, no mages necessary) then grabbing a ring shouldn't be a problem.
as for running out of charges, bringing a larger, stronger party and some planning are easy ways to stretch those rests. one extra mage on a dusty run means you can rest half as much. bring a druid and you also get your elements covered.
i have never used more than 5 or 6 ring rests on any run meaning i could do a dusty run and then a sissy run w/out any problems.
also: biorejuvenators are persistent drops (right?) and are often unclaimed. with one or two you can easily complete a sissy run and get a fresh ring.
i don't think it will affect the frequency of runs, but instead the makeup of parties.
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Post by maudlin27 on Nov 27, 2006 20:47:39 GMT
What does the rest ring system working properly mean then (as so far I've been assuming that it's simply a way of regulating the number of times you can rest for a particular run, to ensure you use each of your rests wisely+conserve them)? With the example of a dusty run at the moment, although I can't find the old post that gave level guidelines IIRC the recommended level for a dusty run with a party of 4 was 50 (or possibly 55). Now to be generous I'll assume that you have 2 casters in this party of 4, and they're lev55 as opposed to lev50. I reckon that you'd probably be looking at using up 7-9 rests on your ring to complete the run, quite possibly more depending on a number of factors (how many spell slot items you have, how effective your char is, + the same for the other caster, and how much help the other 2 members of your group can give). This is of course a fairly rough estimation (mainly going on my experience of doing dusty with a lev60 caster, with another lev60 caster as a teammate, and with some of the best caster gear around equiped on my char, where I'm looking at using about 7 rests when massing areas as much as possible and conservering spells to cause the maximum damage to as many enemies at once as possible). This then means that you'll have potentially just 1 charge left on your ring to try and attempt a run like ssithy, or even harder, illithids, assuming they haven't already been done. Now with ssithy if you're careful you can get away with using maybe 2 charges on your rest ring before the bridge as a lev55 or lower caster by heading to the T-Chamber (although it's worth noting that this can be a risky tactic to try depending on the speed of your party, as some sections may respawn which could potentially spell disaster for you at a time that you'll be out of spells. You could probably reduce this number down to 0 charges, but at the cost of a significant increase in risk depending on how long since the area was cleared, and it would be highly dependent on whether you have any castings of gs left), and then on the bridge you'll probably want another 2 charges with your rest ring. Before this wouldn't have been a problem - if needed you could make it to the pedestal without using a single rest on your rest ring, and you'd be able to contribute to the party fine. Even with the pedestal moved to the boss area you'd still be ok with 12 rests on your ring charge had you done a dusty run just before, as if you were careful with how you used your rests, and headed to the T-chamber, you could make it through the run with 3-4 rests fine. Thats why I was wondering what the reasoning behind the cut from 12 to 10 was as I've currently only come across the reasoning for the replacement of the rest ring pedestals (apologies if I've missed a post about it elsewhere explaining this though). Obviously I can learn to live with this change for my caster builds, and adapt my tactics to encorporate it, I'm just a bit sad casters (and char builds that rely on limited uses per day items/abilities heavily) have taken a hit as a result of a crackdown on 'rest ring despawns', and naturally would want to see if there were alternatives to achieve the same objective (preventing people despawning half a run just to recharge their ring) without hurting builds that rely on rests to be successful, such as retaining the 12 charges per use. If it was for balancing reasons as well though then that'd be different, as IMO some builds such as str melees are on balance weaker than your typical caster build anyway, and such a change would help even them out a bit more by increasing the importance of a str melee's advantage (being near-100% effective without rests, or having just been res'd), while ensuring casters can no longer blast groups of enemies with every single spell they have, rest, and repeat. Instead they'd have to try and spread their spells out more, and rely on other party members to help them kill the enemy more, while accepting that runs would take longer to complete as a result.
[Edit]: With the estimates for ring usage, obviously the more people you have in your party over 4, the fewer rests you're going to need, as other party members will be able to help out. So it'd still be feasible to do a dusty run then a ssith run in a much larger party with 10 charges on your ring, and the pedestal at the end. I used 4 members as a guideline as I recalled reading a previous post mentioning that as being the typical party size that was reckoned when balancing some of the LL areas.
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Post by DragonChyld on Nov 27, 2006 20:50:15 GMT
i really don't think a ring ped is worth placing at the immo fight just because its not a run that needs a lot of mages. with a nice big party, and all the non-immos who need them should have a full ring, any high level mages should only need 1 maybe 2 rests, if they don't have rings, then a biorejuvenator should work just fine anyhow i like melee in the abyss, it just seems more fun quick answer to that thought Level 46 Staffmaster or BaneKnight
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Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 27, 2006 21:38:35 GMT
i don't think it will affect the frequency of runs, but instead the makeup of parties. Bingo. It's just a slight tightening of current rest restrctions, which weren't proving very restrictrive at all. Funky
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Post by FunkySwerve on Nov 27, 2006 21:59:24 GMT
What does the rest ring system working properly mean then (as so far I've been assuming that it's simply a way of regulating the number of times you can rest for a particular run, to ensure you use each of your rests wisely+conserve them)? No, it IS a way to force casters to be smarter and more conservative with spell use, but in general, not on any particular run. Using the furrow as an example is pretty unconvincing, as well, since it was designed to be a nightmare for casters, AND because there will be a ring p[edestal near it in the not-very distant future, as I've already said. Funky
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Post by thedomicron on Nov 27, 2006 23:29:41 GMT
keep in mind, many casters (myself included sometimes) barrow through an area with my lvl 9 and 8 spells, then rest and move on. when i do an immo run, i see most casters not using their lower level spells which are still effective. when i go on an immo run i use mostly grabbie hands in order to help manage the run, when there come enemies which the melee'ers are having a trouble with, i'll pull out the big guns to dispatch them, but i can make it a long way without needing to rest while still being effective in the party.
most druids i see use 2 spells, bombard and earthquake, which are great spells to be sure, but they have others which can be used effectively in certain areas to allow casters who have used up their main spells to still be effective.
as for staffmasters and bane knights, sorry i don't have any idea how their buffs come out and how often they need to rest, so i can't offer any insight in that area.
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