Arena Matches

[cathedralmaster]

I was just wondering if there was some way heal potions could be disabled in arena matches (but not heal spells)? Was just thinking this would make PvP more worthwhile - right now, whenever you get someone injured they just hit hit a heal pot making PvP less than worthwhile - while at the same time making clerics and druids more valuable in the matches.

It could also make any damage a more serious concern for runners which would be neat.

[alandrian]

Well mathes in the pvp area are arranged anyway. You dont meet there by accident or else. So why not just say 'no healpots' before the fight. You see the animation anyway so is someone breaks it you can end the match and give him a Nelson-like 'haha'.

[tyranlthixis]

I think Cath is referring to guild pvp events such as pillars where killing another player is one means to prevent points/stall another team. I'd have to say when playing pillars as Moonbeam I'm still able to kill a lot of people, but if I could stop healing that number would grow substantially. More importantly I could better stop some of the better point earners by specifically chasing them down because those are the players that usually come better equipped to heal, sanc, and get the heck out of my way.

Tyran

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

I concur. As a cleric, it was kinda frustrating to see how damage spells were next to useless unless I caught someone injured, by suprise, or otherwise engaged by monsters.

And really, I never drink healing potions since my spells generally benefit me and also anyone else around me in my party. The same would apply there.

[bort]

I imagine the outcome from disabling heal potions would be everyone taking battle clerics or other highly regenerative characters.

[tyranlthixis]

Well its already like that to some extent. However, high crit fighters would also benefit since they'll be able to disrupt spells.

I also had another thought...how about adding double hells penalties to the general environment? That would make people a lot easier to kill...plus you'd have to put more thought and strategy into a viable team and the penalties couldn't be restored off permanently....like the ac dropper pens can.

Tyran

[cathedralmaster]

tyranlthixis said:

I think Cath is referring to guild pvp events such as pillars where killing another player is one means to prevent points/stall another team.

Yeah, Pillars is what I was referring to.

[bort]

tyranlthixis said:

Well its already like that to some extent. However, high crit fighters would also benefit since they'll be able to disrupt spells.

I also had another thought...how about adding double hells penalties to the general environment? That would make people a lot easier to kill...plus you'd have to put more thought and strategy into a viable team and the penalties couldn't be restored off permanently....like the ac dropper pens can.

Tyran

I like that idea.
Anyone new to guild events would be smashed into the dirt, but I suppose that's part of the fun (for smasher and smashee)

If you want to go one step further,
how about removing fear, mind and death immunity from all players on top of the hells penalties?

[tyranlthixis]

Well it would be more of a slaughter if you remove all immunities. My only concern would be certain classes may be a bit overpowered. For example, my shifter's illithid blast has such high DC it would be able to wipe out large groups of players without much problem. Besides you'd be surprised how many people come to these events without basic immunities (let alone bigsbys immune and other to be expected specific immunes).

Tyran

[bort]

tyranlthixis said:

Well it would be more of a slaughter if you remove all immunities. My only concern would be certain classes may be a bit overpowered. For example, my shifter's illithid blast has such high DC it would be able to wipe out large groups of players without much problem. Besides you'd be surprised how many people come to these events without basic immunities (let alone bigsbys immune and other to be expected specific immunes).

Tyran

Agreed, possibly a little too harsh.
Either way, I look forward to the next time I see a shout for a guild event and have time to tag along.

[dodrudon]

I don't think it'd be feasible to expect a well-balanced Pillars party, apart from having casters and non-casters. The events are unplanned so you can't tell somebody to be on at a certain time, and only those who aren't already on a run usually participate.

Lowering saves by 10-15 points would put a good mid-60 save into the 50-55 range. However, the difference between having to roll a 1 and rolling a 3 or 4 to fail a save against a spell is significant, especially against a caster with a lot of spell slots or a shifter with unlimited gazes. Leaving it at a 5% chance seems good all things considered.

I think the main focus of PvP is finding each opponent's weakness and exploiting it, while avoiding those that can exploit your own weakness. For example, a pure wiz has no evasion (I'm lookin' at you Acaos!), nor might a strength tank, while a dex tank has lower physical immunities, and summoning an Ensnared Balor on an unsuspecting manticore hurts as well.

I like the disabling of Heal pots, it takes me maybe four full spikes to kill someone, but he just healed every few steps. Unless I hit him while he's jumping, I don't really expect to kill him even though he was considerably more vulnerable to spikes than most others on the field. However, allow players to use Cure Crit pots and such, maybe scale those potions to heal a certain percentage of your total health so they're actually useful.

[Delfestra Ruinvorn]

tyranlthixis said:

Well it would be more of a slaughter if you remove all immunities. My only concern would be certain classes may be a bit overpowered. For example, my shifter's illithid blast has such high DC it would be able to wipe out large groups of players without much problem. Besides you'd be surprised how many people come to these events without basic immunities (let alone bigsbys immune and other to be expected specific immunes).

Tyran

I agree with Tyr. If you remove death and mind immunities...well one PM could wipe the board with a weird or two.

And really, your gear gets some rather wacky combos since you're always wearing the jump boots and trying to defend yourself against people. Monsters have different attack types than people do most of the time. The last Pillars I was at was a DEATHFEST as the beholder acolytes were just ruining people, and hordes of firegrubs weren't helping matters.

And, as to seeing oceans of battleclerics or high regen character types - most Pillars people I saw were AAs, mages, monk/bard types - FAST characters. I was the only cleric I saw both events.

And part of the wacky fun is that there IS no planning for team composition - teams must work with what they have, so it is and should be more about teamwork than about individual stats. First night, the team I was on worked like a well oiled machine and I was astonished, and felt a bit like a clueless bumbler (yes, it was my first Pillars ever). Second day, well, everyone was confused so there was much bumbling around and discohesion. Lots more new people, who don't normally party together.

Both were still really fun though, for entirely different reasons.

What I'd like to see, if its even possible, is not a total disabling of healing potions - but reducing their effectiveness to a set number HPS in Pillars, if that is even possible. That means people will have to watch their life, and can't just click a heal when they're at 25% life and giggle...but it also means that it won't be nothing but a field of corpses when the pit fiend comes by.

Since party balance for Pillars isn't that feasible, parties shouldn't be required to have a balanced party to participate.