Viable shield-less warriors

[Raj]

Before throwing my though in the suggestion thread I'd like to know if everyone else is missing the coolness factor of a large-weapon wielding, something in line with a frenzied berserker greataxe user <-- repertory aD&D picture
Everybody is wearing a shield in these days, and that's indeed the right thing to do, but isn't that plain boring?

The new crit range on large weapons is indeed a nice novelty ( guess what, it works only vs crittable creatures, and many 1handed weapons have a comparable crit range), but doesn't make up for the loss of 16-19 ac and plenty of nifty immunities; there's some bonus dmg, 1.5xSTRmod instead of 1.0, and that usually means 15 more phisical dmg on a 70 strengh build, not enough to cover the huge defence bonus lost

atm, the only ones who use a large weapon are large sized characters, who can also wear a shield, so it's not a matter of changing weapons.

I'm thinking about giving some sort of shield ac to those using a large-sized weapon and, if large sized, nothing equipped off-hand ( 1 ac each 2 points of str bonus sounds fair to me, it's 15-18 ac at best on rdd builds, comparable to ac users but you're still trading damage - and glamour - for immunities/resistances )

This would make str staffmasters and disarmers viable w/o a large subraces, adding more weapon choices and giving another option to differentiate builds

Constructive criticism appreciated, actually I was thinking about a quasiclass concept ( something in line with deathbringer - Sarevok from BG anyone? ^^ ) but there're already so many of them around and many malee build could benefit from more variety.

[Trazik]

I like the idea personally, and I wonder if the change to weapon AC (deflection --> shield, all except kamas) was done for this reason. If so, it would only be a matter of adding AC to the weapons.

I am not certain what the values should be, but it would make sense to my mind having ACs added to Lvl 29, 35, DB and Dis weapons. Or instead of 35 & DB, perhaps substitute the Ssith and MoAD weapons since nobody uses them currently and they invariably find their way into sell chests and mass sell chests.

Trazik

[Raj]

adding a deflection mod on lvl 29-35 weapons would raise the ILR, making them no longer lvl 29-35

maybe it costs less work introduce a new script rather than change all the weapons in the module, and not basing it on the availabe gear would help newbies on their first ( poor ) toon

[gruntgruntson]

therajah said:

something in line with a frenzied berserker greataxe user

These are often referred to as "Barbarians", and some of the more powerful ones are able to wield a large weapon with a shield (Although I believe the shield is not seen).

Would be nice to see more medium-sized large-weapon wielders, but it may take away from the advantages of Large races.

[Raj]

The advantage of barbarians with shapestrong is wearing a big weapon or a double weapon + a shield, i'm talking about not having to wear a shield in order to be effective

large races atm have few advantages if not barbarians, because they don't gain the bonus attacks from double edged weapons, so they are usually seen wearing a great weapon for a nice critical range + a shield ( because they cannot gain the 1.5xSTRmod to dmg because a engine limitation iirc )

[bhao]

the thing i'm wondering is: why wasn't kama changed to shield ac? it is just as easy to not have any kamas with shield ac on them... unless.... there is going to be a way to put temp shield ac on weapons, like dd can do atm with waraxes. maybe a future quasiclass?

[thedomicron]

because monks already have giant ac?

also, groo's monk is an example of a medium sized str based shieldless melee char, and his damage output for unarmed combat is flatout ridiculous

[Trazik]

I wonder if shield AC would mess with Monk Wisdom AC and cause NWN to blow up.

[bhao]

thedomicron said:

because monks already have giant ac?

yes, but my point was: why not just have no kamas with ac on them?? why this exception? it is really not necessary unless there was a way to somehow artificially get some ac onto them. and currently i don't know any.

[Acaos]

There is no current way to get temporary AC on them, but that doesn't mean we couldn't add ways to put temporary AC on weapons in the future.

Acaos

[lala]

Also if you did get the AC as a medium race using large weapon.....
Why would I then bother ever using a shield and 1-handed weapon that does less dmg from crit range/multiplier and the 1.5 str bonus?

If the AC was enough for it to work then most would just use large weapons with medium races for the bonuses.

Cheers
Lala

[bhao]

that's why i was wondering, if a future quasiclass (or even future rangers for dual wield) might have that. maybe with the power to put shield ac on their own weapons to allow for "Viable shield-less warriors".

[lala]

You dont think everyone would just use large weapons if it becomes pretty easy?

[bhao]

i think there would be a way to keep everybody else from using a weapon buffed with shield ac.

it's not like dd can give the dwarven waraxe with shield ac on it to somebody else without the shield ac disappearing.
it's not like a lash can cast blade thirst on somebody else's whip to get them a touch of the lash weapon.

[lala]

bhao said:

i think there would be a way to keep everybody else from using a weapon buffed with shield ac.

it's not like dd can give the dwarven waraxe with shield ac on it to somebody else without the shield ac disappearing.
it's not like a lash can cast blade thirst on somebody else's whip to get them a touch of the lash weapon.

What I mean is that large weapons become the ideal melee weapons if the AC provided makes it easier to do these builds.
I know I would really look at switching to the 1.5 str bonus and the fact these weapons are 19-20/x3.

I would say a lot of others will be thinking the same.
The large races are meant to provide the flexibility of using large weapons with shields.
But then they lose out if it becomes viable for mediums to use the same weapon with a little more dmg bonus than them.

Lala