Post by Delfestra Ruinvorn on Jun 30, 2007 4:04:17 GMT
Ok, today I have done two pillars events. Both with *some* of the new changes.
I played both as a tank, and as a cleric.
And - the complete uselessness of casters in the PVP was stark. I must say, it was horrible. By contrast, the overly ridiculous power of tanks is just as stark - well, this last 9pm Pillars run was extremely tank heavy, and there was a good reason for that. Tanks kicked ass. Everyone else ran away from them, or lost. Period.
Why? Well, lets see:
My cleric today: 57 AC after Guild AC dropper...and I'm a double demi with a +20 shield that non-demis can't have, and top of the line cleric equipment.
By contrast, my Lash's AB is 92. And I know people with higher AB. A tank...is never going to miss me. Never.
What tanks deserve - is a fair chance to hit, and a fair chance to miss. yes, I know this is going to be hard to figure out numerically since there's like a 20 ac difference between dexers and str tank/cleric/druids.
But as it is - -50 on top of losing your boots ac (unless you're a bard/sd/smitertype) is just too much. It makes it nearly impossible for me to defend myself.
And for caster offense? Well, I've said this before: A double demi half celestial cleric with a wisdom artifact and legendary evocation has a 58 maximum DC. Str tanks will simply not have a fort save below 60. I went after a dexer AA today - a DEXER, and they had a 58 Fort save AFTER battletide AND prayer. The best debuffing I could possibly do, and they still had near complete immunity to implosion. And of course, all other spell saves will be LOWER. Even Aessa the Double Demi's energy drain or meteor swarm can't reach 58 DC.
I had about 30 implosions per rest in Pillars. I used them aaaall the time. I spammed people. I ran into only one person who even had implosion immunity. I killed - ONE person. ONE. And I felt lucky.
And, I am glad that the heal potion change is being experimented with. Early today, it wasn't used - and later today, it was. The difference was very apparent.
Early today, I could EQ people for huge amounts of damage...and they'd walk right by me, loot a remains...keep walking...go from BW to Uninjured in one heal...and then jump away. I may as well not even have been there for the combat effect it had.
Destruction wasn't any better. Full heal made my spells entirely irrelevant.
Later today - it was MUCH harder. The two spellcasters I ran into (because tanks dominated tonight, with a few AAs on top)...well, I had to actually heal two or three times once they really blasted me down. I was in more serious danger from them, than any tank had been from me in the earlier run.
The alteration to healing potions is wonderful, and a good step towards leveling that disparity.
But gods...the AC Dropper MUST drop saves, and the AC reduction for pillars must be reduced, or casters will be useless. Already, one can become completely immune to most useful caster spells by way of gear. Evasion + minimum 60 target saves for Hell makes mage evocation totally useless in its entirety. Target minimum 60 fort saves make implosion a joke. And since human casters can't put out the same spam that 3 devariels or 5 ssithraks can with implosions...pillars fighters can be pretty damned safe just ignoring that immunity, since they're in no danger of failing the roll beyond the ever-present 1.
Indeed...of the players this morning, only one I imploded was even specific spell immune. And I threw implodes at a LOT of people.
The AC dropper (for pillars at least) is too much now. 50 AC, Its just too much. 57 AC vs 92 AB? Heck, even my str tank had 69 AC - and THATs too little to be a fair chance of hit or miss. High AB builds just walk in and beat everyone down - even each other.
And the new immunity drops from the pillars themselves? Actually, that seems to benefit fighters and hurt casters MORE. Why? Well casters, even clerics, can't remove the effects from themselves. And they're going to suck the pain of lowered immunities when the tank's weapons hit them - as they will ALWAYS do, since their AC is so low and the AB is so high.
Tanks? Well, they will always save, even if the spell effects them at all due to evasion or complete immunity from gear. So lowered divine damage won't bother a tank vs a caster that badly...but lowered divine damage will be very bad for a caster, since chances are its on the tank's weapon someplace...
And there's lowered physical immunity possible aswell. Which makes tanks hurt each other more - but makes tanks hurt casters more too.
The goal should be in my opinion, both types of classes having a fair chance to ruin each other, and a fair chance to "miss" with their attack types. That would let playerskill shine. And we currently just don't have that.
I enjoy pillars, I really do - its neat, new, and wacky. And I appreciate the amount of work it takes to go into organizing and conducting the event - the headache of lost bows jumps quickly to mind.
But, tonight at least...the lag was utterly insane. I crashed twice, at once point I had someone else's quickslots in my bar when I came back, weird things like "Give Exp" and "Change Target Alignment to Lawful" and some blank entirely. At times, I went from alive to half dead, and then two people rubberbanded from the other side of the visible area to be on top of me instantaneously. I know the events are popular, and I know that it takes a lot to run them and ties up the server...but, the negative alternative we had tonight was the laggiest run of any kind I can remember. Really. It was just that bad for me.
And that makes me frustrated. So, I shall go to bed before I rant any longer, and get further from useful suggestions.
...and I apologize for my angry ranting...my frustration, has clearly gotten the better of me. So I shall stop it here.
I played both as a tank, and as a cleric.
And - the complete uselessness of casters in the PVP was stark. I must say, it was horrible. By contrast, the overly ridiculous power of tanks is just as stark - well, this last 9pm Pillars run was extremely tank heavy, and there was a good reason for that. Tanks kicked ass. Everyone else ran away from them, or lost. Period.
Why? Well, lets see:
My cleric today: 57 AC after Guild AC dropper...and I'm a double demi with a +20 shield that non-demis can't have, and top of the line cleric equipment.
By contrast, my Lash's AB is 92. And I know people with higher AB. A tank...is never going to miss me. Never.
What tanks deserve - is a fair chance to hit, and a fair chance to miss. yes, I know this is going to be hard to figure out numerically since there's like a 20 ac difference between dexers and str tank/cleric/druids.
But as it is - -50 on top of losing your boots ac (unless you're a bard/sd/smitertype) is just too much. It makes it nearly impossible for me to defend myself.
And for caster offense? Well, I've said this before: A double demi half celestial cleric with a wisdom artifact and legendary evocation has a 58 maximum DC. Str tanks will simply not have a fort save below 60. I went after a dexer AA today - a DEXER, and they had a 58 Fort save AFTER battletide AND prayer. The best debuffing I could possibly do, and they still had near complete immunity to implosion. And of course, all other spell saves will be LOWER. Even Aessa the Double Demi's energy drain or meteor swarm can't reach 58 DC.
I had about 30 implosions per rest in Pillars. I used them aaaall the time. I spammed people. I ran into only one person who even had implosion immunity. I killed - ONE person. ONE. And I felt lucky.
And, I am glad that the heal potion change is being experimented with. Early today, it wasn't used - and later today, it was. The difference was very apparent.
Early today, I could EQ people for huge amounts of damage...and they'd walk right by me, loot a remains...keep walking...go from BW to Uninjured in one heal...and then jump away. I may as well not even have been there for the combat effect it had.
Destruction wasn't any better. Full heal made my spells entirely irrelevant.
Later today - it was MUCH harder. The two spellcasters I ran into (because tanks dominated tonight, with a few AAs on top)...well, I had to actually heal two or three times once they really blasted me down. I was in more serious danger from them, than any tank had been from me in the earlier run.
The alteration to healing potions is wonderful, and a good step towards leveling that disparity.
But gods...the AC Dropper MUST drop saves, and the AC reduction for pillars must be reduced, or casters will be useless. Already, one can become completely immune to most useful caster spells by way of gear. Evasion + minimum 60 target saves for Hell makes mage evocation totally useless in its entirety. Target minimum 60 fort saves make implosion a joke. And since human casters can't put out the same spam that 3 devariels or 5 ssithraks can with implosions...pillars fighters can be pretty damned safe just ignoring that immunity, since they're in no danger of failing the roll beyond the ever-present 1.
Indeed...of the players this morning, only one I imploded was even specific spell immune. And I threw implodes at a LOT of people.
The AC dropper (for pillars at least) is too much now. 50 AC, Its just too much. 57 AC vs 92 AB? Heck, even my str tank had 69 AC - and THATs too little to be a fair chance of hit or miss. High AB builds just walk in and beat everyone down - even each other.
And the new immunity drops from the pillars themselves? Actually, that seems to benefit fighters and hurt casters MORE. Why? Well casters, even clerics, can't remove the effects from themselves. And they're going to suck the pain of lowered immunities when the tank's weapons hit them - as they will ALWAYS do, since their AC is so low and the AB is so high.
Tanks? Well, they will always save, even if the spell effects them at all due to evasion or complete immunity from gear. So lowered divine damage won't bother a tank vs a caster that badly...but lowered divine damage will be very bad for a caster, since chances are its on the tank's weapon someplace...
And there's lowered physical immunity possible aswell. Which makes tanks hurt each other more - but makes tanks hurt casters more too.
The goal should be in my opinion, both types of classes having a fair chance to ruin each other, and a fair chance to "miss" with their attack types. That would let playerskill shine. And we currently just don't have that.
I enjoy pillars, I really do - its neat, new, and wacky. And I appreciate the amount of work it takes to go into organizing and conducting the event - the headache of lost bows jumps quickly to mind.
But, tonight at least...the lag was utterly insane. I crashed twice, at once point I had someone else's quickslots in my bar when I came back, weird things like "Give Exp" and "Change Target Alignment to Lawful" and some blank entirely. At times, I went from alive to half dead, and then two people rubberbanded from the other side of the visible area to be on top of me instantaneously. I know the events are popular, and I know that it takes a lot to run them and ties up the server...but, the negative alternative we had tonight was the laggiest run of any kind I can remember. Really. It was just that bad for me.
And that makes me frustrated. So, I shall go to bed before I rant any longer, and get further from useful suggestions.
...and I apologize for my angry ranting...my frustration, has clearly gotten the better of me. So I shall stop it here.
the prizes are a bonus yet but even if there wasnt i would still turn up as its a good way to get to know ppl and have a bit of fun from leveling chars all the time ..