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Post by dodrudon on Jul 24, 2007 7:40:39 GMT
Alright, so... thoughts on the new area.... (as requested)
1) The view is terrible. However, this I can live with. The entrance areas could use a little clearing up though (like the Falling Leaves area, it could REALLY make a difference).
2) Way. Too. Long. The entire run needs to be stripped of one or two areas. It's fun and the maps are small, but it's longer than some Hell runs and the spawns take quite a while to kill (even knowing "the catch"). Maybe we didn't have a full party, or coulda used a shifter (ours left early), or maybe our casters didn't know how to nuke yet, but at least one area needs to be removed. We ended up finishing the run at the beginning of Falling Leaves because the time commitment was way higher than what we expected.
3) Difficulty-wise, it felt quite comfortable. However, the squishies were instantly gooeified upon rezzing, they didn't stand a chance most of the time. The on-hit effects add an interesting dimension. That said, it looks like the area will be dominated by shifters with good equipment, high immunity tanks, and concealed dexers, with casters playing support role (maybe, haven't tested all the abilities of casters yet).
4) The loot isn't too great.... it's barely above a common, and well below a UR. We did see a level 35 kama drop there though, which was... odd... Is it a level 35 area?
The rest zones DEFINITELY help, as we were resting every two spawns or so, at least twice a map despite the size.
The initial.... surprise... seems a bit unfair. The only way we made it the first time was because we had demis. The Floor should be a no-fugue zone at least, though that does open up some exploits. Perhaps give it a save or a set amount.
It took us some time to get on our feet, but once we got a rhythm going we were fine, just had to restore and heal (extremely) often.
In summary, a well made party with certain classes will totally rock the area. A not-so-balanced party, but with strong players, will take a long time to finish but will undoubtedly be successful.
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Post by chainlink on Jul 24, 2007 7:57:05 GMT
I've seen level 35 weapons drop on hells runs before, its just part of the pool of rare items (although with a reduced drop %age outside of strictly level 35 areas) so in fact they can drop in any 35-LL area.
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Post by Acaos on Jul 24, 2007 9:15:46 GMT
The initial.... surprise... seems a bit unfair. The only way we made it the first time was because we had demis. The Floor should be a no-fugue zone at least, though that does open up some exploits. Perhaps give it a save or a set amount. I think it should probably be a set amount, but it's not a surprise - before even stepping in you get an item which tells you what's going to happen. Acaos
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Post by dodrudon on Jul 24, 2007 9:43:31 GMT
I joined late =/. It took us a while to figure it out.
The bank might glance at it, but the party wants to get the run going, few are gonna stop long enough to read it all....
I only pity poor SG-11. We will hold them forever dear in our hearts (that didn't prevent us from looting their corpse though, do you know how much a spare zed-pee-emm goes for these days!?).
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Post by fragment on Jul 24, 2007 12:25:16 GMT
Another fugue zone in the game. What's the point - do you mean to keep people from playing there? *sigh* Went yesterday with a bunch up to map #4 on 2nd attempt. Difficulty. I brought my caster bard yesterday, and I must say that this area is *extremely* hard on builds with low AC. The dexers seemed to fare good, but my bard could maybe tank one of them (dunno how they're named, the standard melees) with some luck, 2 would quickly overwhelm me. As far as I saw it, the druid fared no better. GS-scrolls are staple for me in that area. Difficulty-wise, for me this is equal to hell runs. (The gripe is, this disadvantages squishy-but-neccessary builds like clerics, druids, bards due to their much higher fugue chance - who in their right mind would take them on these runs?) Anyway, what we did was spawn a bunch, sometimes two at once, kill them slowly, another one, then it was resting time. I used my epics *often* and practically spammed curse, healing-circle, healing-circle, pearl, healing-circle, healing-circle, ..., interspersed with gust of winds. I used a lot of pearls. Time. I have to support that, the run takes faaaar too long. I had to leave yesterday after 2 and a half hours, with the end not in sight. Made me sad. I heard casters can't do much due to SR, and I keep thinking about earthquakes. Nuking things like in the good ole desert time (instead of "shunt pls", "conceal pls", "immu pls", grr). I'll go with my druid this night and break some loot down there Dodrudon: The "catch"? Somebody knows it already? I was with a bunch of very experienced characters, and we would simply bash our ways through. PST. "rest zones"? I know that you can rest there as you "can" rest in the drow area, but there is more to it? Like, specific zones where you won't spawn anything?
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Post by alandrian on Jul 24, 2007 13:26:46 GMT
Acaos asked for our impression so i post it here. First of all I was in the second group that did the run. We started about the same time than the first one so we didnt know anything beforehand. But we had a couple of demis in the group, which should be considered when I summarize at the end. First impression: The setting is beautiful. Quite different from the other maps in the mod. Was really fun to play. The problem is the the old nwn engine. The trees really make it hard to see and navigate even with this auto-clipping. I know its an inherent nwn problem but maybe remove some trees to compensate that. What i liked about the run was that it you can rest without ring. I know that the group has to stop fighting so you can rest but i really prefer it not to rely on a charged item (actually i hate the nwn rest thing altogether). Another interesting thing is that the creature feel quite unique with their abilities. It feels like hell mobs not just the usual mass-them-like-farm victims. Now the bads . Our run took very long. Well I know we lacked a certain knowledge and took quite some time to figure it out. My shifter and part of our group with a certain ability got separated which took quite some time and prevented to figure it out fast, although in retrospective it was quite obvious, hehe. Unfortunately I am an orc in reallive and could not possible have read the clue. If we would do it again we would be faster and bring other classes I guess. But I think it still will take some length. And I mean more the length as it feels than as it is. While hell runs keep the pace up with completely different mobs on the next map etc. this run was more like "Oh no, not them again", although the last map had a nice feature. The challenge rate seems high for a level 55 area but I wont judge this yet. Beholder seemed impossible to me too when I did it the first time and now i can solo it without turning on the monitor (just kidding). I guess you wont ever solo Pharlans but time will tell here. All in all I think its a nice different run, that should be a bit shorter. The loot is not really impressive so I would do a medium/deeper hell run anytime if I were looking for loot. It takes about the same time. Limbo is better than fugue, although demis shine here. Both seems to depend on certain classes to do it well. Well all I posted are my experiences after one run so treat them as that .
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Post by EW Storm on Jul 24, 2007 14:22:49 GMT
The scenery is ok.. It is difficult to see stuff.. anything really.. targetting etc.. No res scrolls on the last map was a complete let down...waste of 3 hours? The spawns were entirely boring until the forest floor.. cut and paste spawns I call them. Interesting robe with magic res 15..
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Post by Stormchaser on Jul 24, 2007 14:42:26 GMT
I think the place looks great (even better with shadows on but had to turn them off for framerate issues). I will agree that its hard to see sometimes, but you are in a tree canopy which I would think should be hard to see in.
I'll hold my comments on length as I have only tried it once starting around midnight, and after 2.5 hours it was bed time for me and others in the party. We stopped at the beginning of the falling leaves map. After playing it a few more times with different party make ups I'll make my decision on length.
I've played my archer for my first try and had a good time. I'll be bringing my druid next to see how well she does as I have a few ideas on tactics.
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Post by stonewarrior on Jul 24, 2007 15:08:13 GMT
I was in the party with Alandrian the first night and enjoyed the run for the most part. From the time I joined (they had been at it for a little while) it took about 4.5 hours to finish. My guess is the time will be quicker next time as we will actually know what we are doing from the get go. I am not sure I would take a character there under level 55...at least not until I try it again as some of the mobs just brutalize you. If you don't bring certain items with you and no Demi's are in the group you can wipe and wipe fast. As I joined once the part was on the forest floor I was unaware of the "special bonus" you get for killing the mobs. I am not sure I like this aspect of it but will reserve judgement until I read the material at the beginning. One thing that might help with decreasing the time the run takes is the quickness of the respawns. It seemed like everytime we had to backtrack we would hit a respawn...even if we had only been that way in the last 10-15 minutes. This was especially true on the forest floor as we went all over the map multple times in an effort to figure out what to do. Like the others I found it difficult to see what was going on much of the time and found myself watching my "map" to ensure I was going the right direction. I understand it is a forest and that you go into the canopy but a little pruning would help with visibility. That said it adds to the difficulty which is probably a good thing. The boss fight was crazy insane! At one point I wondered do we even want to continue as we would have wiped a couple of times but for most of the party being a Demi. However, part of this was due to our party makeup as we were missing a key component needed for the boss area to go a bit quicker. Initially I think players need to pay attention to the projected level for the area which is 55 to 60. As for what I think will survive there I would say any good build that is played effectively can do well. Our party had 2 tanks, a shifter (or was it 2?), a Druid, a Cleric / Wiz part of the time and a Bard. We were also joined by Dod's shifter for a while as well as one or two others are different times. Peace, John.
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Post by dodrudon on Jul 24, 2007 15:23:08 GMT
I'd also like to third the previous comments that the are is VERY beautiful, but unfortunate shadows must be turned off for framerates. Regarding loot, I should clarify that I don't think the loot is worth the effort. Being able to excel in the Pharlans area probably requires having good (mostly UR) items. Again, that may be because we're all new to the area.... Who knows, maybe people will start soloing it soon Also, the nature of the run requires several classes offhand, just like a Hells run, which is both nice and not nice. Getting a Hells run together takes long enough, getting a Pharlans run won't take AS long, but will still take quite a while.
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Post by cathedralmaster on Jul 24, 2007 18:17:27 GMT
I heard casters can't do much due to SR, and I keep thinking about earthquakes. Nuking things like in the good ole desert time (instead of "shunt pls", "conceal pls", "immu pls", grr). I'll go with my druid this night and break some loot down there They all can fly. Think about that a minute. As for the reading material, I think no one is reading it largely because it's too bloody long. Who wants to stop the run for an hour while someone reads through it all? You take one glance at the Pact of Dragons and right there your turned off to reading anything at all till after the run is over. Perhaps breaking up the longer two into multiple books would make it a bit less daunting while at the same time providing a fun quest like feel to it?
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Post by sabregirl on Jul 24, 2007 19:43:38 GMT
The reading material that's of immediate importance to you is the Tsoia which is not particularly long and is conveniently broken up into short paragraphs. ;D The book, The Pact of Dragons, is there primarily for cultural background, though it may give you insight into some of the special attacks and abilities you will be facing. -S
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Post by stonewarrior on Jul 24, 2007 20:05:12 GMT
I forgot to add that despite the visibility issues I really liked the design of the areas. They are very unique to the rest of the mod.
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Post by dodrudon on Jul 24, 2007 23:16:37 GMT
May I request when the Stargate is used that a WHOOSHing noise be added, and anyone standing in front of the gate is immediately distentegrated?
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Post by tyranlthixis on Jul 25, 2007 3:28:05 GMT
Couple of impressions
1.) At the moment the area is definitely level 55 or greater difficulty. Its not a place you could really take a level 50 especially a non dex tank without serious baby sitting. With a good number of BURs a level 60 strength tank can survive fairly well.
2.) The continuous need for restoring is obnoxious and detracts from the fun of the area. Fortunately for me extended greater restores on my battle cleric provide frequent auto restores, but most of my characters would be a pain to play there.
3.) The xp per kill is terrible and the kill rate is slow.
4.) Quality of loot is lower than UR. Most of the items were picked below the UR's in the split. However, the area harder than most levels of the Hells (especially the boss fight). There's very little incentive to go to this area as it stands, unless your a level 60 sorcerer who has their heart set on the artifact at the end.
5.) Very non mass friendly area.....2 spawns can easily wipe a small party.
6.) Thought the mordsing on the pre forest floor screens was a bit much. You already need to waste an equipment slot on levitation ring..... Spawns are already plenty dangerous without this.
Tyran
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