Post by johannhowitzer on Jul 27, 2007 11:13:56 GMT
Hey, to the DM team, I'd like to offer this little bit of insight, for what it's worth. Not insisting you make a change, just describing what I see happening.
The new auto-reset feature is nice, as it (I assume) removes the resetting responsibility from the DMs themselves, thus ensuring servers get reset on a regular basis and DMs do not need to be around to make it happen. Correct me if I'm wrong; it's not really the point of this post.
The point is that I see it having a possible negative side effect on the auctions in the Wyrm. Sure, people could do this before, but it wasn't nearly as predictable. The point of an auction is that the person who wants to pay the most for the item should be able to buy it, right? While that may still be true to some extent, it is far more likely that people will wait on the reserve price or a low bid in order to "snipe" it at the last second before the reset. I don't know how often this happened before the change, but as it is not possible to raise your own bid until someone else bids on the item, having the highest bid can be a disadvantage, as it puts you at the mercy of snipers who know exactly when the server will reset and will jump in 5% above your bid at the last second in order to get the item out of your reach without having to bid higher than you would have gone. Sellers lose money, honest bidders lose the items they wanted when they gladly would have outbid the snipers in question... it's just messy and frustrating for those who have the highest bid, and discourages any bidding of any kind for anyone who is aware of this. Why bid when you can mark the time and date on your calendar and snipe it for a tenth of the price?
Again, not saying this problem MUST be solved, or even that the auto-reset is the cause. However, knowing exactly the moment the server will reset makes it all the more possible for snipers to work their magic. Some countermeasures I thought up, again just for what it's worth:
1) Randomize the resets a little. Sure, we want people to be aware the reset's happening, but if you mix it up, we'll get more of a bidding frenzy (like a normal auction) instead of a single silver-bullet lowball bid. It could be as simple as setting the last 5 minutes of the reset clock on a randomizer from 2 to 5 minutes, so that snipers won't be able to know they are immune to overbidding. People could still delay the reset, but this won't prevent honest bidding, as if you delay the reset you are only asking for the chance to make a higher bid, still without being able to snipe. No reset announcements would be given during the last 2-5 minute segment, except upon login - and the login message would be a simple request to stay out of the bank chests, giving no timeframe.
That solution is apparently simple in execution, though again I could be wrong as I don't know the code involved; it theoretically prevents "absolute" sniping, and it doesn't interfere with normal run operations any more than the current system. Another option:
2) Allow self-outbidding. If I can raise the bid I've already made, I can easily tell if someone is camping to snipe, and I can counteract this with a high bid the sniper will be forced to overcome in order to win the item. Not a total solution, as with a good enough bank account the snipers can still reign, but it does patch up an apparent hole in the system. The downside is that a current high bidder would conceivably be able to "lock out" the item by clicking on it, and refusing to complete the bidding process until the server resets; that's a nasty side effect. Another:
3) Restructure the auction system to include a player's "maximum bid." Rather than slowly scaling up the bids as they are comfortable, bidders will enter the maximum amount of money they would consider worthy of the item in question, and that maximum operates as a "hidden bid" that must be overcome by another bidder before that person can become the new controlling bidder. Yes, this is the system we see in effect on eBay, and for good reason - it's simple, it requires only one more variable on each item (the max bid), and to some extent it counteracts sniping, since I can be comfortable with posting a rather large bid with the knowledge that I won't have to pay that much unless someone else would have paid slightly lower. If I can place my highest possible bid, then if a sniper comes along, I shouldn't be disappointed because they went beyond my price range anyway.
People might have a little difficulty adapting to this third solution, as they are currently used to bidding lesser amounts, so I can see most people following their current practices and outbidding each other's maximums several times over... and still getting annoyed at snipers. Also, as the bids are currently held (from what I can see) in the item's name, which is visible to the general public, I am not sure how the maximum bid would be recorded... that is a problem for someone who knows about the coding involved.
It should be fairly obvious that I speak from experience. Just this morning I logged onto server 1 to check on the Divine Voice Quiver I was bidding on, only to find that a sniper was camping on my item. It was pretty clear he was after the quiver, as he was an AA and a bid had just recently been placed over mine. I overbid him, and then was forced to watch as he continued to camp out and he bid at the very last second, such that I could not have gotten in my own bid before the reset, despite the fact that I would gladly have paid much more than the 40 million I had already bid. He no doubt took it for 42 million, and I wouldn't have blinked at offering 150 million or more. The seller lost out, as did I, because of an exploit in the system. Ironically, if I had waited to place my bid, I could have done the same thing to him - since this removes almost completely the incentive to bid, the "reserve" price might as well be the actual sale price.
I leave this to your consideration and discussion; rather than demand a solution, as I am not a frequent bidder, I merely wanted to bring this to people's attention. Thanks for reading!
The new auto-reset feature is nice, as it (I assume) removes the resetting responsibility from the DMs themselves, thus ensuring servers get reset on a regular basis and DMs do not need to be around to make it happen. Correct me if I'm wrong; it's not really the point of this post.
The point is that I see it having a possible negative side effect on the auctions in the Wyrm. Sure, people could do this before, but it wasn't nearly as predictable. The point of an auction is that the person who wants to pay the most for the item should be able to buy it, right? While that may still be true to some extent, it is far more likely that people will wait on the reserve price or a low bid in order to "snipe" it at the last second before the reset. I don't know how often this happened before the change, but as it is not possible to raise your own bid until someone else bids on the item, having the highest bid can be a disadvantage, as it puts you at the mercy of snipers who know exactly when the server will reset and will jump in 5% above your bid at the last second in order to get the item out of your reach without having to bid higher than you would have gone. Sellers lose money, honest bidders lose the items they wanted when they gladly would have outbid the snipers in question... it's just messy and frustrating for those who have the highest bid, and discourages any bidding of any kind for anyone who is aware of this. Why bid when you can mark the time and date on your calendar and snipe it for a tenth of the price?
Again, not saying this problem MUST be solved, or even that the auto-reset is the cause. However, knowing exactly the moment the server will reset makes it all the more possible for snipers to work their magic. Some countermeasures I thought up, again just for what it's worth:
1) Randomize the resets a little. Sure, we want people to be aware the reset's happening, but if you mix it up, we'll get more of a bidding frenzy (like a normal auction) instead of a single silver-bullet lowball bid. It could be as simple as setting the last 5 minutes of the reset clock on a randomizer from 2 to 5 minutes, so that snipers won't be able to know they are immune to overbidding. People could still delay the reset, but this won't prevent honest bidding, as if you delay the reset you are only asking for the chance to make a higher bid, still without being able to snipe. No reset announcements would be given during the last 2-5 minute segment, except upon login - and the login message would be a simple request to stay out of the bank chests, giving no timeframe.
That solution is apparently simple in execution, though again I could be wrong as I don't know the code involved; it theoretically prevents "absolute" sniping, and it doesn't interfere with normal run operations any more than the current system. Another option:
2) Allow self-outbidding. If I can raise the bid I've already made, I can easily tell if someone is camping to snipe, and I can counteract this with a high bid the sniper will be forced to overcome in order to win the item. Not a total solution, as with a good enough bank account the snipers can still reign, but it does patch up an apparent hole in the system. The downside is that a current high bidder would conceivably be able to "lock out" the item by clicking on it, and refusing to complete the bidding process until the server resets; that's a nasty side effect. Another:
3) Restructure the auction system to include a player's "maximum bid." Rather than slowly scaling up the bids as they are comfortable, bidders will enter the maximum amount of money they would consider worthy of the item in question, and that maximum operates as a "hidden bid" that must be overcome by another bidder before that person can become the new controlling bidder. Yes, this is the system we see in effect on eBay, and for good reason - it's simple, it requires only one more variable on each item (the max bid), and to some extent it counteracts sniping, since I can be comfortable with posting a rather large bid with the knowledge that I won't have to pay that much unless someone else would have paid slightly lower. If I can place my highest possible bid, then if a sniper comes along, I shouldn't be disappointed because they went beyond my price range anyway.
People might have a little difficulty adapting to this third solution, as they are currently used to bidding lesser amounts, so I can see most people following their current practices and outbidding each other's maximums several times over... and still getting annoyed at snipers. Also, as the bids are currently held (from what I can see) in the item's name, which is visible to the general public, I am not sure how the maximum bid would be recorded... that is a problem for someone who knows about the coding involved.
It should be fairly obvious that I speak from experience. Just this morning I logged onto server 1 to check on the Divine Voice Quiver I was bidding on, only to find that a sniper was camping on my item. It was pretty clear he was after the quiver, as he was an AA and a bid had just recently been placed over mine. I overbid him, and then was forced to watch as he continued to camp out and he bid at the very last second, such that I could not have gotten in my own bid before the reset, despite the fact that I would gladly have paid much more than the 40 million I had already bid. He no doubt took it for 42 million, and I wouldn't have blinked at offering 150 million or more. The seller lost out, as did I, because of an exploit in the system. Ironically, if I had waited to place my bid, I could have done the same thing to him - since this removes almost completely the incentive to bid, the "reserve" price might as well be the actual sale price.
I leave this to your consideration and discussion; rather than demand a solution, as I am not a frequent bidder, I merely wanted to bring this to people's attention. Thanks for reading!