Please Help w/ This Build (Fighter/WM/Monk)

[arielt]

So... I was hoping someone might look over this build and give suggestions for it. I mostly wanted to use Fighter as the control class to get lots of feats, the +slashing damage and Epic Dodge. As a happy side effect, I think the 10% physical damage vulnerability is possibly a handy extra ability in some areas. The result seems like a fairly defensive STR build, though the Will still leaves something to be desired. I keep feeling like the +6 damage from Epic Weapon Specialization isn't really worth the 2 feats that get put into it. Would something like Superior Initiative for +12 to intiative serve me better? Plus, there's a slot for an epic feat I just can't figure out what to use it for.

Fighter 24 / Weapon Master 7/ Monk 9
Race: Earth Gensai

STR 18 (48)
DEX 13
CON 18
INT 13
WIS 6
CHA 6

Fighter 1 - Exotic Weapon Prof, Weapon Focus, Dodge
Fighter 2 - Mobility
Fighter 3 - Spring Attack
Fighter 4 - Weapon Specialization
Fighter 5
Fighter 6 - Expertise, Whirlwind Attack
WM 1
WM 2
WM 3 - Blind Fighting
WM 4
WM 5
WM 6 - Toughness
WM 7
Fighter 7
Fighter 8 - Improved Crit, Iron Will
Fighter 9
Monk 1
Monk 2 - Lightning Reflexes
Monk 3
Monk 4

Epic
Fighter 10 - Epic Weapon Focus, Great Con I
Fighter 11
Fighter 12 - Epic Weapon Specialization
Fighter 13 - Great Con II
Fighter 14 - Armor Skin
Fighter 15
Fighter 16 - Great Con III, Epic Prowess
Fighter 17
Fighter 18 - EDR I
Fighter 19 - Great Con IV
Fighter 20 - EDR II
Fighter 21
Fighter 22 - EDR III, Great Str I
Fighter 23
Fighter 24 - ? ? ?
Monk 5 - Great Str II
Monk 6
Monk 7
Monk 8 - Great Str III
Monk 9

LL
Great Str IV-X
(bonus) Epic Dodge

[Jenna]

Interesting build. I too have wondered if the Specialization is worth the feats. At most you are talking about 6 x 4 (no scythe as you aren't large) = 24 damage on a critical hit. That's physical damage which seems most monsters are immune to. Any thoughts on a weapon for this build? Two choices come to mind here: Bastard Sword 1d10(19-20/x2) and Dwarven Waraxe 1d10(20/x3).
Couple other things: You need 22 constitution (iirc) for EDR. Currently you have 21 as when you take the first EDR (unless you intend to put a point into con as one of your ability bonuses -if so, drop the Great Con IV). Since you are taking monk (for improved evasion) and have a spare feat, take Epic Reflexes to boost your reflex save and make your evasion better.
Jenna

[chainlink]

Going primary class Ftr is probably a mistake as you'd get a better ab sticking with WM. Also you won't get epic dodge unless you have all the 30 required Ftr levels before LL as these levels do not (unless specifically quoted) count to class specific/bonus feats.

[arielt]

Actually, you'll notice to qualify for pretty much any feat, it's always an odd stat number... you only need Con 21: www.nwnwiki.org/Epic_Damage_Reduction

Additionally, it's a fighter bonus feat. All my general feats are in (sadly) stat bonus increases. After talking to some people, it may be smarter to drop exotic weapon focus and go for Warhammer for x4 (WM multi increase) and bludgeoning type damage (though it will be overridden if you add slashing to it via sharpening)

And really? They have to be Pre-LL? *sighs* Fighter was looking so viable too... The 10% damage vulnerability from whirlwind seems nice in conjunction with WM as well (since you HAVE to have it anyway. Not to mention the +10 to damage. I just don't know what I would do with an extra 3 fighter feats and it would kind of suck to lose improved evasion... Plus the saves would suffer a bit since you could only take 2 monk levels pre epic.

Argh, how annoying.

[arielt]

Okay, I fooled around a bit and reworked it.

The final saves with +12 to the proper save and +20 saves at level 60 should be:
Save (total) (base) (stat) (feats) (save bonus/epic bonus/LL bonus)
Fort 64 = 13 + 12 + 4 + 35
Refl 57 = 12 + 7 + 3 + 35
Will 52 = 9 + 4 + 4 + 35

Maybe I should drop 2 Great Strs and pick up Epic Reflexes and... Epic Will?

Fighter 30 / Weapon Master 7/ Monk 3
Race: Earth Gensai

STR 18 (48)
DEX 13
CON 18 (22)
INT 13
WIS 6
CHA 6

Monk 1 - Luck of Heroes, Strong Soul {Evasion!}
Fighter 1 - Weapon Focus
Fighter 2 - Dodge,Toughness
Fighter 3
Fighter 4 - Mobility
Fighter 5 - Iron Will
Fighter 6 - Spring Attackl
Fighter 7
Fighter 8 - Improved Critical, Lightning Reflexes
Fighter 9
Fighter 10 - Expertise
Fighter 11 - Blind Fighting
Fighter 12 - Whirlwind Attack
WM 1
WM 2 - Great Fortitude
WM 3
WM 4
WM 5 - Improved Initiative
WM 6
Monk 2

Epic
21 WM 7 - Great Con I
22 Fighter 13
23 Fighter 14 - Epic Weapon Focus
24 Fighter 15 - Great Con II
25 Fighter 16 - Armor Skin
26 Fighter 17
27 Fighter 18 - Great Con III , Epic Prowess
28 Fighter 19
29 Fighter 20 - EDR I
30 Fighter 21 - Great Con IV
31 Fighter 22 - EDR II
32 Fighter 23
33 Fighter 24 - EDR III, Great Str I
34 Fighter 25
35 Fighter 26 - Knockdown
36 Fighter 27 - Great Str II
37 Fighter 28 - Improved Knockdown
38 Fighter 29
39 Fighter 30 - Superior Initiative, Great Str III {Epic Dodge!}
40 Monk 3 - tumble dump

LL
Great Str IV-X

[arielt]

So, given a choice between

Epic Dodge, +25 damage, 10% immunity decrease on whirlwind attack

and

+6 attack, Ki Critical whirlwind attack

Which is better?

[Jenna]

oops. My bad on the EDR feat. Looks better now. Since you are dropping improved evasion in favor of the fighter bonus, maybe consider switching over to 2 levels of rogue instead of 3 monk levels. You would still get evasion PLUS the ability to open locks/disarm traps/pick pockets/etc. You would also be able to put that 3rd level of monk into WM and bring that up to level 7 for the Ki Critical. So you would be doing Fighter 30/WM 7/Rog 2. Your AB will be the same and you may end up gaining some extra saves. I don't have save progression memorized so you would have to check.
Would it be possible to drop the Superior Initiative to add Epic Reflexes or is that a bonus feat? I'm guessing it is. I definately would not drop the great strength. Looks like you will have a BAB of 30.
Jenna

[arielt]

The build acutally results in a BAB of 29, the 2 pre-epic monk levels boost all saves by 3 and therefore seemed a valid choice. I do have the 7th WM level, it's my first epic level. I simply used the pre-epic grouping like I did because it gave the best save bonuses overall. Sadly, none of the Epic Save feats are fighter bonus feats.

[Jenna]

Doesn't WM get an attack bonus at level 5 (hence 30 ab at 40)? ah yes, missed that level 7 wm. I had a similar build to this with a monk. It was my second build on HG (way before I discovered forums). I built a 21 monk/9 fighter/10 rogue. I wanted a fast character that could open locks. The build was fundamental flawed (took circle kick - even though I was wielding kamas?!). It did all right for itself though. She made it to level 45 or so before I had to scrap her (desert opened - she was getting HOSED!). I plan on eventually remaking it though. Going with some combination of monk/weapon master/rogue.
As far as your build, I think it looks decent now. A pity about the epic save feats. Oh, just a note: You'll get 2 feats at fighter level 2 (level 3) none at 4. Same thing (no feats fighter 9, 2 at 8); feat at WM level 2 and 5 instead of 3/6.
Personally, I would drop the initiative feats and grab specialization.
I think this is the best you are going to get this build. Good Luck!
Jeena

[bort]

Personally I'd drop two Great Strengths for the Epic Save feats.
-1 Ab for +4 to 2 saves sounds too good to pass up to me.
Especially bearing in mind that you may not always be able to wear all the save maxing gear you'd need for maximized saves.

(With so much WM/Ftr pre-epic I think you can afford to lose 1 point of AB)

[jersak]

Seems like a fun build. I was thinking of a build with similar level progression, but with DEX and Conceal instead of STR/CON. I know that would be a big twist for this build, (maybe a little off topic) but I just thought I'd mention it and see what the general reaction was. It seams feasible, but then, I'm fairly new at character creation in HG. What do you think?