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Post by omino23 on Jan 19, 2007 7:04:53 GMT
Just a general question. I am working on a build that I am hoping will fare ok in the hells. Since some of you have been there and seen it I was hoping for a nudge in the right direction. This build I am thinking is going to have BG/Pally/COT with COT being the overwhelming control class. Like 50 lvls. I know you can get save boosting items but I am hoping that this guy will have incredible saves. Maxing Cha too. I am only really investing in spell craft and tumble and dis. Protection from IGMS and Bigby and I should be all set right? Or am I going to be a nice ornament on some demons pitch fork? Any suggestions are welcome and please note I am not asking for the secrets or spoilers.
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Post by Balduvard on Jan 19, 2007 15:33:37 GMT
You may want to choose a class other than CoT if you were intending on maxing saving throws*. The maximum saving throw would be from a monk/pal/bg build, with 20 levels of monk. The Blackguard's Dark Blessing stacks with the Paladin's Divine Grace. I made a test build of this a while back that managed saves in the 80s (this was before the LL system). Following some quick calculations...
20 levels monk: +12 to all Base L60: +27 (+10 epic, +5 LL) Using Hound Archon: STR +4, CON +2, WIS +2, CHA +4
Str: 12 ->16 Dex: 8 (-1) Con: 14 -> 16 (+2) Wis: 14 -> 16 (+2) Int: 10 Cha: 16 -> 20
Going the Cha maximizing route... +10 levelling, +10 feats, +10 LL...
Cha 50 + 12 gear = Cha 60 -> Bonus 25
So adding to the +27 from natural progression...these calculations may not be accurate, but it looks right to me. My test build had saves in the 70s without any gear.
Fortitude: 27 + 2 base + 6 con gear + 6 feats + 20 save gear + 50 bg/pal bonus = 111 Reflex: 27 - 1 base + 6 dex gear + 6 feats + 20 save gear + 50 bg/pal bonus = 108 Will: 27 + 2 base + 6 wis gear + 6 feats + 20 save gear + 50 bg/pal bonus = 111
So yeah, your saves will be through the roof. Granted you won't get much time to use them since in maximizing your saving throws you've left yourself with very little defense or offense...so you may want to rethink the building strategy on this one. Still, the BG/Pally combo is the best for maximizing your saving throws. If you want to give up the monk bonuses, then a CoT/BG/Pally build would work (36/2/2) for more BAB and bonus feats at the cost of some (will) saving throws.
*
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Post by omino23 on Jan 21, 2007 1:39:41 GMT
Thanks for the idea, I had not thought about using monk. I will look into it.
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Post by omino23 on Jan 24, 2007 2:46:50 GMT
I wanted to report on how my Cot/BG/pally was working out. Right now I am sitting pretty at lvl 32 with all saving throws above 80 and fort in the 90s. I am happy with this and also pleased at how this character can do in combat. It is amazing what a little divine damage will get you What I am working with is the Max saving throws build from the bioware forums search engine. I think if you just look up pally/bg/cot for any lvls of each it is the first or second one that comes up. For the free feat spaces I am taking greater smiting feats and with any luck this guy should do ok but he has yet to be really tested by LL boards so we will see. The only thing I find annoying about this build is that divine damage and the divine ac requires almost constant vigilance and often I must stop in the middle of combat and bless then buff just to be able to hit harder monsters. I also have yet to pull off a smite (either before with the regular one or now with the epic one). Any advice on how to make the divine ac and divine damage stick around longer? Any advice about how to smite evil? Thanks for help and look forward to seeing all of you in Hell...... errr around the server
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Post by Balduvard on Jan 24, 2007 15:24:50 GMT
The duration for divine spells is usually tied to a character's level, while the duration for divine feats (might, wrath, shield) are tied to your charisma modifier. For the build in question, the duration of spells are tied to your paladin levels (which for this build are in short supply), and the duration of feats are tied to your charisma bonus. Divine wrath will have a duration of 3*cha since you will have >41 levels of CoT in the end, while Divine Might and Shield will only have your base cha as a duration. If you wanted more duration of spells, you would have to take more paladin levels, and more charisma if you wanted a longer duration of feats.
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Post by kaldair on Jan 24, 2007 16:41:23 GMT
Another idea which will still get you huge saves, a standard "fighter class" AB/AC, nice monk goodies, along with the goal of high Paladin levels so your Pally spells have more duration, would be something along the lines of 37Pal/2Bg/1M.
Kaldair
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Post by kaldair on Jan 24, 2007 17:44:34 GMT
Hehe - realized after I posted that another build that might satisfy the uber-saves idea as well as making a good HG playable class is a Baneknight along the lines of 12Sorc/27Bg/1Pal ...
Kaldair
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Post by omino23 on Feb 2, 2007 1:04:59 GMT
Second update on how this guy is doing. ".o0O Amano Jakiju O0o." level 44 seems to be on top of things with saving throws, the greater smites are super cool, AC is decent "AC 101-103", fort, reflex, and will are all just about 100 (which is actually too high really let me know if I am wrong), and can hit stuff with his +12 kiss of flame scim to good effect. The Maze has been lots of fun and I think that I will be able to make my own map and spend alot of time solo in there. The desert is a little iffy sometimes but at least it is not the implodes that are getting me (most of the time). Now that I am in the LL I was hoping that there might be some suggestions to fix the build so he ca be a little more combat oriented. I had a few ideas, I can only get 1st level pally spells and wont get much higher ones cause I only have 7 lvls of pally so is it worth it to increase my wis at the expense of cha? I was also trying to look into other skills to put points into. Disp is at about 45 and spellcraft is at around 20 and tumble is at 20. I am thinking of putting some points into heal? any other suggestions? Feats? I know I have lots of questions and I don’t expect a decree from heaven with all the answers but all the advice has been really goods and I am learning alot about nwn from this server and making this guy. When I have a good idea of how to get the saving throws uber and the combat deadly I will tweak this build around a bit and post it on the forum.
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Post by dodrudon on Feb 2, 2007 1:41:42 GMT
It doesn't matter how high your saves are, as long as they're higher than the DC of whatever you're being checked against. And if you roll a 1, you still fail.
So basically having saving throws above 80 is basically useless, as there is nothing (that I know of) that forces you to make a saving throw that high.
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Post by omino23 on Feb 6, 2007 4:27:43 GMT
I have checked it out and what you say is true. Rolling that one happens sometimes. Originally I made this build with the notion that since my other Chars got pummeled by implodes in the desert that I would at least prevent that. For the most part it has been prevented but still it happens. While the investment in saving throw feats and using the COT class has given me saving throws of all over 100, it does leave this guy lacking in combat skills (although it is nice to go around rezzing everyone after a bad implode/sand in the lungs session). I have been messing around with [test] Chars and am going to post a monk/pally/bg and a revised slightly more combat ready version. I must say that the greater smites idea is a stroke of genius and really gives new life to a class that is in my opinion crippled by only having one smite.
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