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Post by dodrudon on Jan 23, 2007 0:16:59 GMT
Bard Song in no way affects casting ability, the best it can do is as Curse Song to lower saves.
As a caster bard, you should design it after other casters. That is, max Cha as much as possible. Because of your high Cha, you should put points into taunt (it's based on cha), this will be slightly useful in many situations. At the maximum, curse song will lower enemy ac by 15, and taunt will lower it a maximum of 6, to a total of 21. Thus, any character that can hit a boss without a roll of 20 will then be able to land EVERY hit (except on 1s). You also cause an AB penalty of 6, in effect giving party members 6 bonus AC. Saves are lowered by 6 (8 for will), making spells that much more effective.
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 25, 2007 0:53:36 GMT
I didn't see a definitive answer on Spell Focus schools (unless I misread something)
Can you, as a bard, take a spell focus school and/or use the books?
Example: Paladin (it's what I have to go with from experience) You can get GMW +14 if you take an Enchant Feat and then read a book at LLs.
Does this same hold true for bard?
If so... Transmutation, Evocation, or Enchantment? I see Evocation and Transmutation being the top two...
-Res
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Post by phalthallus on Jan 25, 2007 17:45:40 GMT
Yes, your GMW from Enchant would carry over, AFAIK. Trans is great to keen non-slashing weapons (as Yomi pointed out). And these WOULD technically improve your casting of your own spells - but not for scrolls or items, as far as I can tell. Someone can correct me if that's incorrect.
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 25, 2007 21:18:11 GMT
scrolls and items have constants player spells have variables (in my mind) So my best S.W.A.G. is that as always, no, it does not do anything with item spell levels and abilities only character based ones.
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Post by Yomi on Jan 25, 2007 21:27:16 GMT
The books definitely work, as do the focuses. My first bard (Yomi -- a 35 bard 4 pal 1 monk) read the enchant book at level 40 which updated her GMW's to +13. I had the option of getting Legendary Spell Focus: Enchant for +14 and know someone who has, but I decided I didn't want it. I took Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus in Transmutation so I could keen my rapiers and daggers (as well those of party members).
You do NOT get any epic spells like other casters do. So no Balor or Girding or similar. It probably doesn't make sense for bards to get those particular epics anyway -- I wonder if it would be worthwhile to dream up 8 bard-type epics for discussion.
Most bards so far have been melee bards, for good reason. This encourages enchant and perhaps greater transmutation. The other focuses don't offer anything to a melee bard. For a caster bard I suppose Enchantment and maybe Evocation would be useful. I still get asked "but what would you cast?" when discussing caster bards.
Scrolls and other items do not take into account your spell focus or spell penetration feats. They are typically cast at the minimum level for the spell (there are some exception items which are usually clear in the description). For example, my level 60 wizard can make wail of the banshee scrolls -- a level 9 spell that he casts fairly well if I may be so bold. The scrolls however are all the same -- 17 caster levels. Now these scrolls do enable a level 4 to flatten a whole room full of ice kobolds, much like a generic level 17 wizard with no necro focus or spell penetration feats could. But they're a bit more iffy in strange tower, and the Taros etc. in farm will laugh in your face. They would have this exact same behavior with my level 60 wizard, whose wail when cast on the Taros would decimate them. There are some scrolls which retain their usefulness however -- keen, mord, GS, Black Blade, stone to flesh, mindblank, etc. which generally suffer only in their duration.
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 25, 2007 21:59:28 GMT
I wonder if it would be worthwhile to dream up 8 bard-type epics for discussion. Yes, it definitely would, though I have to figure out what other abilities/spells I can offer up to caster bards. Funky
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Post by resonance378 on Jan 25, 2007 22:54:02 GMT
Let me know if I am beating a dead horse or going completely the wrong way (use a stick if you must, but be gentle).
My minds eye has always seen a bard as a fighter with witty remarks, retorts, taunts, words that fascinate, and mesmerize while they do combat.
Like the old midway games (whack-a-mole!) that taunt you as you try to beat his head in, but he keeps coming back!
Maybe an epic that focuses on the Bestow Curse, Hideous Laughter, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, War Cry, or Dirge spells?
Dominate Person Bards at X level get a lacky they can summon. Someone who will protect them to the end as they are so completely enamored of the bard. Like Don Quixote’s side kick Sancho Panza.
Hold Monster - Area of Effect - The bards music, comedy, speech, presence have such power that all creatures within radius must save or be mesmerized for X (bard lvl/divisor) of rounds.
....
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Post by FunkySwerve on Jan 26, 2007 2:23:23 GMT
The point (one of them, anyway) of epics is to create new spells, not regurgitate spells the class already has. Ditto the other abiilties I'm planning to add. Funky
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Post by resonance378 on Feb 2, 2007 18:38:59 GMT
OK - Here is to Dreaming! Bard Epic Spell Suggestion:Resounding Note - Through practice and patience the bard has learned that the most trained of performers can pierce the protective properties of all armors with one spectacular note. Area of Effect - Huge Saves - None like a Druids EQ Duration: Something Epic What's it do? Enemy becomes vulnerable to: Slashing, Pierce, Bludgeon - 5% Fire, Acid, Cold, Sonic, Electric, Positive, Negative, Divine - 10% If the %'s should be bumped up or down then go for it! Caster Bard Weapon(s):The Biting Wit of Sarcasm - Light Cross Bow DaggerDescription: "Shhhyeah, Like I'm gonna fight you." - Sarcastro Bard Slots ( all levels additional 3 spell slots ) Immune to Negative: 100% Immune to Divine: 100% Feat: Improved Critical: Dagger Skill: Perform: +15 Skill: Tumble: +20 Skill: Discipline: +10 Skill: Concentration: +15 Enhancement: +10 Keen
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Post by resonance378 on Feb 9, 2007 0:40:11 GMT
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Post by iamaqt on Feb 25, 2007 14:49:22 GMT
maybe we'll see some caster bard gear show up that you'll get to wave in our faces and make us all want to start our own qtbards. So, how many qtbards are out there now? Another question I have now.... With the new spell books, do spell focuses improve these? If so, which ones are they? This is so exciting to have new items!!! Thanks to the DM team for adding great stuff. -qt
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Post by FunkySwerve on Feb 25, 2007 16:29:05 GMT
All the custom bard spellsongs having scaling dc/casterevel just like normal spells. There's a little more discussion in that thread as well. Funky
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Post by iamaqt on Feb 27, 2007 21:23:22 GMT
Just an update - I made Immortal yesterday and am happy to say that I survived quite well. (We had a good group too). Everyone was pleasantly surprised with my song and how it gave the entire party stoneskin (among other nice things). Now we'll see how she does in LL areas. I am patiently waiting to see if there will be any Epic Bard Spells. So far I have just been taking greater CHA and saving some feats for spell focuses.
Thanks again for everyone's input and of course the great new Bard update and new items out there.
-qt
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